Navel Gazing
“The Stranger Within Our Gates”
by Larry Downing, September 14, 2015: Dr. Karl Menninger, in his book Whatever Became of Sin?, tells the story of a man who each day walked about the Chicago Loop. Every few feet he stopped, pointed his finger at an unsuspecting pedestrian and, in a loud, accusatory voice pronounced “GUILTY!” He then went on his way to confront another unsuspecting victim. Should I be one of the accused, I would have to agree with the verdict. I am guilty! I do not find solace in confessing my guilt, nor do I believe I am alone in this guilt, nor is there a point of pride that I now confess, nor is there a feeling of despair or self-loathing associated with the activating event that initiated my guilt. In simple words, my guilt is navel gazing! We experienced navel gazers have developed the fine art of looking at self. We have, like a laser beam, developed our ability to identify what we need to feel satisfied and what others are expected to do to fulfill our expectations. This gift of self-focus is not, in and of itself, a bad thing. It is important to hold people accountable and expect excellence from our leaders. We are chagrined when those in whom we have placed trust fail to live up to their responsibilities. We are correct in our disappointment when people neglect, or worse, reject the common values associated with human decency. But there is more to life than the attention we give to those events and actions that are so self-centered. It is at this point that my guilt grabs me.
While thousands of people flee for their lives as the travesty of war decimates their land and their lives, I have been occupied by the actions taken and promoted by my denomination’s administrators and leaders. I have agonized over the decision at the recent GC that, in an official action, voted that one gender is more acceptable to fill a sacerdotal function than another. While we were taken up by these parochial matters, countless men, women and children ventured forth on what is euphemistically called by the participants, The Road of Death. Thousands more will join the previous thousands who have died at sea, died on a trek across deserts, died at the hands of human smugglers, and died from hunger and thirst. And I gaze at my navel. Amazing!
It wasn’t always this way. When American lost the Vietnam War, thousands of people who had worked for the American government, were part of the South Vietnam military, or had other connections with American interests, were forced to leave their country. Many, like those who flee Syria, Sudan and other countries, died in their attempts to escape tyranny and war. Other people were more fortunate.
One of the major American entry ports for Vietnamese refugees was Indian Town Gap military base in central Pennsylvania. Indian Town Gap is located a few miles from Blue Mountain Academy, where the Pennsylvania Conference holds its annual camp meeting. When the first refugees arrived at Indian Town Gap, I, along with another pastor, was working to prepare for the hundreds of people who would soon fill the tents and school gym. When the local radio station announced that Vietnam refugees were arriving at the military base, I decided to visit the camp and see what was taking place.
I drove onto the base, parked, and began walking around. I introduced myself to a group of men and began a conversation. One of these individuals was a Vietnamese naval officer, Not just any officer – he was Admiral Cong, Admiral of the Vietnamese Navy. He informed me that he was sponsored by Admiral Zumwalt, head of the U. S. Navy, but several of his naval officers were in need of sponsorship. After several more visits and discussions, my wife and I agreed to sponsor one of his officers, his wife, and their three children.
At the time, I was president of the Carlisle, Pennsylvania, Ministerial Association. I shared with the area pastors the need for refugee sponsors and the requirements for those who agreed to sponsor an individual or family. The decision was made to combine our resources and form a sponsorship group with a goal of sponsoring 100 families. My wife and I agreed to act as emergency housing facilitators. The community exceeded its 100-family goal. My wife and I, besides housing the navy officer, at various times housed four additional families.
What I can say is that during this experience there was little time for navel gazing. This was not a time to be concerned about the ruffles and turmoils that disturb ecclesiastical bodies. We were too occupied meeting with community businesspeople, asking them to hire our Vietnamese people. There were landlords to contact and contracts to negotiate and bank accounts to establish. And somehow, our navels got along without inspection!
I suggest that within the context of the now pressing refugee situation, we direct attention away from our parochial desires and needs and consider what responsible and helpful action we can take to alleviate an international human crisis, a crisis that, to a large extent, is a result of America’s policy and decisions.
The church is one of the most skilled and capable organizations in the world to address such issues, and the church is us! As of this day, September 10, 2015, government officials stated that by next year America is prepared to accept up to 8,000 Syrian refugees. Members of the Adventist church can step forward to facilitate this goal. We have an opportunity to offer refuge to men, women and children who have witnessed unimaginable violence, the shattering of social and family structures, the destruction of an ancient society and the ruination of a nation’s historic heritage. We do not have to reinvent the wheel. Church World Service, Refugees Welcome, The Salvation Army, and other organizations one can find on the web are available to help groups or individuals begin the sponsorship process and provide on-going assistance and support.
Larry,
While looking at the dramatic events and great human distresses overseas, let’s not overlook the great needs and human distress just down the street and around the corner. While our hearts are moved by dramatic scenes of desperate people, Jesus told us to take care of the people near to us.
In His story about the Judgement in Matthew 25, Jesus didn’t praise anyone for how much they defended doctrine, how many prophecy seminars they taught, or how vigorously they argued their view on the Ordination of Women. It was all about feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and prisoners, etc. What really drives the story home to me is when God scolds the goats because they wouldn’t even do those basic things to “my brothers,” to the people in their own body of faith. Many needs in the church go unmet because people are unwilling to obey Jesus and do the basic things He told us to do and as a result the faith of many has been weakened and even destroyed. But where we are attentive to those needs we see the church blessed and growing.
Today more Americans have dropped out of the workforce because they can’t find work than at any time in history. I’ve been unemployed and can tell you it is a desperate situation. A number of times my family and I were ministered to by non-SDAs who loved God, but rarely by any Adventists because they were mostly focused on preaching end-time events.
From one of Larry’s comments one can only conclude that the vote *not* to permit WO is still an extremely sore subject. Whem are the liberals going to get over their disappointment?
Supposing the vote had been YES how long would it take for you to get over your disappointment?
Over 40% of the delegates voted YES. Assuming this was a representative vote, what have you done to reach-out to over 40% of the SDA community in love and compassion. What have you done to make them feel wanted and included in your own church community?
interested friend: perhaps as soon as the
conservatives stop beating us over the head with it.
Happy Sabbath 🙂
interested friend: perhaps when the conservatives quit beating us over the head with it.
Happy Sabbath
interested friend on September 14, 2015 at 10:38 am said:
From one of Larry’s comments one can only conclude that the vote *not* to permit WO is still an extremely sore subject. Whem are the liberals going to get over their disappointment?”
PLEASE!
Change your moniker/name immediately. If this is your honest response to Larry’s sharing and sincere invitation for others to consider the needs of refugees, you are completely not “interested” in helping and you are most absolutely not a “friend” to those in need. This type of gloating demonstrates to me the insensitivity and lack of understanding of those who are NOT “interested” and are not “friends”. If Brother Larry is “marginalized” as a liberal for caring then I too stand with those that call themselves LIBERAL. By the way that word “liberal” means generous, open-minded and kind.
Why would someone change their name?
Liberal:
1) open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.
2) (of education) concerned mainly with broadening a person’s general knowledge and experience, rather than with technical or professional training.
If Larry wants to pay for refugees, he can. If Larry wants to promote WO against the BIBLE, Sound Doctrine, the Church, the members and the vote, then by all means he can pay for them; because the Church is and will continue to not be able to help much.
I would suggest listening to GOD; HE frowns on new behavior and opinions (Liberal). HE never changes and has set Laws that have been around for a long, long time. HE can provide you experiences that increase wisdom though.
The Church cares, we all care and GOD can definitely do anything. We just have to grow up. The rest of us are making plans to accept 10,000 into 180 camps to be distributed out over the next 12 months. Luckily many other Churches are capable of helping (as will ours of course). I do grow concerned that the Government will not continue to be able to help in much of anything though.
Since you are so emphatic about how we’re supposed to be spreading the Gospel and ministering to the needs in our suffering world, how about giving us some details about your ministry methods, how you see the Holy Spirit guiding and empowering you and what positive results you see God delivering? Are there any?
Sam,
Please, stop wasting your time replying to Interested Friend and Concerned Christian. Let them beat the air with their confused and nonsensical arguments.
If Interested Friend and Concerned Christian are
real men or women, they will submit their actual
real names, instead of hiding behind anonymous sign ins, while being critical to all others.
With regard to refugees from Syria; The USA is not slack in harboring aliens, approx 15 million
over our Southern border. With the constant incoming of aliens, we are inviting the Islamic Terrorists to enter. The immigration people will find it impossible to “VET” each one seeking asylum. The USA should refuse any Islamics haven here. We can’t afford the risk of loss of innocent American lives. From reading
the refusal of food and clothing supplies offered to the refugees in Austria and Italy because of the Titles printed on the cartons, displayed a lack of appreciation of those working to assist them.
Perhaps some are not allowed to post names.
I agree that security should be tight and extensive review will be required before release into the general population; but we still have to help, it is the right thing to do.
Paying for it is a different story.
Earl, Adventists have had plenty of practice rejecting ( and justifying that rejection of) Catholics and other protestants which probably makes it easier to reject non- Christians like Muslims. It takes a pretty hard person to not respond to the humanity in those who are in such dire need. It is my view that it is worth a modicum of risk to offer and provide help. A few thousand years ago there was a guy who was willing to dabble in risky behavior and a lot of people were grateful that he did.
Well you may wish to help but I am working only 4 hours a day and still coming up short to pay the bills I need have to rely on fs Others maybe the same if refuges come they might be in same position no job because our economy is lagging.
Delmer,
I know your struggle from experience. My periods of unemployment and underemployment were highly stressful. They also were an opportunity to learn new depths of what it means to depend on God to provide our needs and to build my faith. It also was the opportunity I needed to do a number of things, like write two books and to discover the Holy Spirit and the guidance and empowerment He gives to all who believe. It is easy in these times to become discouraged. It can also be a time to get to know God like you never have before.
Delmar, I will pray about your financial crisis. It is impossible to compare anything with the reality of the shock and despair one experiences witnessing a dead child lying face down on a beach in Greece. The recent photos of young Aylan Kurdi, a Syrian refugee who drowned alongside his mother and 5-year-old brother while attempting to flee the Syrian civil war, have shaken the western world. Please remember those impacted with prayer. What should we say? What can we do? For most Adventist Americans, the Syrian refugee crisis feels worlds away. The millions of desperate refugees who have come into Europe—many of whom have risked their own lives while fleeing the war and ISIS—have been the source of political debates in several countries, where leaders are determining if they will be accepted and how many will be allowed to find refuge there. The political crisis is complicated and can be difficult to influence, but for the us as Christians and the Adventist Church, the imperative is clear: We must help.
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It is great that our hearts are moved by the severity of the refugee crisis from Syria into other countries. Let’s not get so focused on the tragedy over there that we overlook the crisis of mass unemployment and the economic distress created in America by the Obama Administration and how many opportunities it gives each of us to be the hands of God in ministering His love to them by helping them.
SAM,
We all CRINGE in horror, watching the evening newscasts, — drowning, desperate families in disastrous, dire, distress.
But there were countless children/families gassed in the Holocaust.
Children have died in cruelty, agony, and anguish, for six millennia.
Not even to count those drowned in Ted’s world wide flood!
How do God’s nostrils tolerate the STENCH of so much MISERY?
EGW says “the universe ” (I assume she means “unfallen” Angels and other beings) must “vindicate ” God before the end can come.
Apparently “the universe” is entirely unmoved by six thousand years of drowned boys and gassed children.
Every WEEK one million new babies are born, most in African shanty towns or abysmal Asian slums, and most perishing of starvation or dysentery before age five.
After six millennia, why cannot God convince his OWN Angels of His goodness?
When will “the universe” reach an intelligent arbitration in this insane experiment?
Surely they are getting resistant to repetitive “re-runs” of endless epidemics, atrocities, genocides, wars, refugees, and OVERWHELMING misery?
On Friday, medical researchers, for ETHICAL reasons, aborted a long trial of hypertensive drugs, because the evidence was OVERWHELMING that Systolic blood pressure should be kept lower than 120 mm.
When will God for ETHICAL reasons, abort this disastrous experiment to vindicate Himself?
Why are not His Angels clamoring for an end?
Robin, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said, to the point that I am moved with tears. Your questions are my own and, truthfully, it has caused a struggle of faith, though I still choose to believe.
I’ve often pleaed with God to just please, end it all, end all now. Whether I am ready or not, whether my loved ones are going to be saved or not, just please, end it now. Let the four angels release the winds and just get this over with. This all reminds me of Luke 18:8
I believe your questions are one of the reasons why many Adventists (myself included)become so expectant/excited to see current events correlating with prophecy, because it means that maybe, just maybe, it will all end soon. *sigh*
Such tragic events have great power to cause people to question whether God cares, or if He even exists. I remember when my wife and I were working with the church’s medical van ministry in New York City in the early ’80s and we say thousands of Jewish survivors of the Nazi death camps. I quickly learned to read the tattoos on their arms and recognize which camp they had been in. I vividly remember how for many of them the experience had descimated their ability to believe there was anything good in God’s character. But God has called each of us to minister His love and power so that people will come to believe in Him. Unfortunately, far more Adventists just talk about doing instead of getting their hands dirty and would rather debate details of end-time prophecy, or spend time arguing what they think are facts about God instead of encountering Him and becoming channels through which His mercy can flow. Debate and argument about God prevent us from proclaiming the Gospel.
Robin you ask good questions. I am not sure that some of the answers I have are even a good response or that I should try to answer when many times I really can’t. All I can do is tell you why Christianity works for me.
Some religions seek to explain away the ills of the world. Bad things are attributed to karma, or blamed solely on man’s own misguided actions, or chalked up to God’s inattention.
Not so with Christianity. It does not sugarcoat the evil in the world: “When the world tells us, as it does, that everyone has a right to a life that is easy, comfortable, and relatively pain-free. Jesus’ worldview was very different. He pulled no punches: “In this world you will have trouble.” Yet he didn’t leave it there. He encouraged his followers: “But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
God doesn’t deny that we live in a world deeply marred and broken. Instead he draws closer and enters into it with us. “There is a crack in everything,” wrote Canadian poet and musician Leonard Cohen. “That’s how the light gets in.”
Our hurts can become the very places where we meet God and experience the intimacy of his comforting presence. “When you pass through the waters,” he says, “I will be with you; and when you pass through the rivers they will not sweep over you.”
God doesn’t promise deliverance from or avoidance of all pain.
My prayers are for you to find the peace and understanding that only God can bring.
Sam,
My sincere thanks for your most gracious concern for me and your attempts at responding, touched my heart.
Yes, we can “mine” various promises from scripture, but they regrettably do not always apply
The example you give: “When you pass through the waters I will be with you and they will not sweep over you”
Clearly not applicable to the thousands of refugees drowned this year.
The waters most clearly “swept over them”.
Or maybe being non-Chrisitan Muslims, they were denied?
Do the Bible promises only apply to Sabbath-keeping Adventists, or more specifically, last generation perfectionists?
There have been THOUSANDS of shipwrecks over many millenia, with countless lives lost, not to mention drownings in rivers and streams.
Schools of great white sharks delighted in devouring the drowning souls! God knew what He was doing when He created these incredible “killing machines”.
So that promise has very little resonance with me. but thanks for trying.
Sam, bless your compassionate heart. These sad events are never ending in this sinful world. Which are the priorities for the western world? The
average person is overwhelmed by the daily reports, of suffering, and has become almost immune to the global disasters; and still throw out $$Billions of food annually, they can’t eat, because their bellies are full, and it spoils too soon. We can be touched by a scene of children dying, by drowning or starving, the deaths maybe a blessing for them rather than the what the future holds for them. Millions still starve each and every year in Africa. You’ve seen the videos of the crying babies wanting milk, with flies swarming over them, in the laps of Mothers,without milk, sitting in refugee camps
Until recently millions starving to death in China, each year. This will tear the hearts out of compassionate people, because there is a cornucopia of food and wealth in the world. The problem is compounded by godless forces, armies and revolutionaries at each others throats, stripping the lands of food, creating chaos and wanton murder of innocents, forcing many to flee to havens. There is a great problem in Europe where the Islamic country refugees have over burdened the systems of support. A massive problem in Europe over the past 30 years, is that
the thousands of Islamics have formed Ghettos, and have refused assimilation into the welcoming society, and have insisted on Sharia Law. (CONT)>
The national populations in Europe fear to venture into growing habitats that have their own political systems of ever extending Islamic
ghettos, and have elected members of government
who constantly demand greater social support of these enclaves, where even the police fear to tread, and will unless stopped immediately, will eventually change the countries culture, and force the natives to become refugees, fleeing Sharia Law, and religion. They have become a growing malignant cancer on the Countries of UK and Western Europe.
Sad to say, the West must contain these Islamic refugees in other Islamic countries, otherwise the Western Countries Cultures will in time be overrun by Islamic Rule, Law, Religion, and culture.
The world has plenty to care and feed all the masses, but over 90% of it is in the hands of godless people who would prefer to have the Earth’s population reduced by 80%.
Earl, thanks for responding and sharing your views. I wish I could understand all the suffering and tragedies around us and explain God’s role in all this. What I am sure of is God’s redeeming love for me personally.The greatest reason we have to believe in God’s love and care for us is the incarnation. God, seeing all that was broken in the world—all the sin, all the sadness—personally intervened. But he didn’t just send a message; he sent his son.
Jesus became human and was specially commissioned by God to enter into our hurting world: “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,” Jesus said, “because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free.”
In other words, God saw our greatest, eternal dilemma (separation from him), felt love and compassion for us, and demonstrated that love: “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
In the person of Jesus, God got personally involved. Like a good father, he says to those who hurt and look to him for help: “You may not know it now, but you’re going to be okay . . . and your Dad loves you very much.”
That is what works best for me personally.
Orion,
Thank you for your empathy and admitting you also are moved to tears.
Here are valid questions for theologians and pastors reading this blog:
If as EGW asserts, “the universe” has to “validate”God in the Great Controversy experiment, (in which we are the “guinea pigs”), WHERE ARE THE TEARS OF THE UNFALLEN BEINGS ??? We cry, where is their pity?
FOUR possible scenarios,— please choose:
ONE: Beings on other planets are primitive primates, as depicted in the movie, PLANET OF THE APES.
TWO: GOD’S ordaining of genocides, by the Israelites on their neighbors, inured these onlookers to all future atrocities. Their hearts were hardened by millions drownimg in God’s “world wide” flood. “DEJA VU” —-they shrug at all future calamities.
THREE: God really does not seek “vindication” as EGW protests, so He has a blanket censorship of events on planet earth.
FOUR: there is such a myriad of Angels, each only gets thirty minutes guardian duty of human protégés per century, so as not to empathize with their wards.
God, being omnipotent, is obviously impervious and immune to human suffering, or He would have ended it long ago.
I fault the non-caring, un-compassionate Angels, for not CLAMORING to end the CARNAGE.
WHERE IS THEIR OUTRAGE???
If they are truly components of God’s “vindication” why are they not arbitrating and demanding an end???
You’re welcome, Robin.
I’d love to know which scenarios are correct!
I remain an SDA Christians only because of two things: the cross and the Biblical prophetic message. Were it not for the overwhelming historical evidence that asserts Christ’s exsistence and His death on the cross, I wouldn’t believe in God. When I’ve wanted to throw in the towel, I think of the cross and of Christ’s suffering. Surely He wouldn’t have given up heavenly comforts for naught… There must be a rescue plan in place. It’s just that I am not a patient person… God is working that out! (I am allowing Him to do so, I hope).
Prophecy encourages me to hang on and hope, even when all hope seems lost. Prophecy is my light at the end of this dark tunnel.
If the day comes that I make it into the kingdom, the first thing I’ll ask Christ is what took Him so long!
Hi Robin,
Perhaps there is a fifth alternative you did not mention, namely, that God has already vindicated himself at the cross. His compassion, desolation, total identification with us is revealed there. In him is light and no darkness at all. I do not wait for God to be vindicated, he has already done so for himself in Jesus. He can be trusted. Yes, I have no answer for the problem of continuing pain in our world. When I was made sick by that question and confronted my jewish psychologist with my desperate pain about it, he pointed to what he called “your total, mystifying arrogance.” He wanted to know from me how it was I thought I could find an answer to a question that no human being has ever come up with, not even his own people. Since then I have learned from the child who was afraid of the dark and always objected going to bed. His mother then would give him a choice. While he had to go to bed, he could choose whether she should leave the light on for him, or whether she should sit with him in the dark. The boy always chose personal presence over light. Light is not always what it’s cracked up to be. Moreover, I am a lesser being in relation to God. I am like a kitten playing with a ball of wool that is incapable of understanding the physics of why balls roll. But I enjoy the rolling action without any comprehension. Continue to respect you and your mind, my friend.
William Noel,
Thank you for your story of working in New York City and meeting many Jewish survivors of Nazi death camps!
I grew up in South Africa. Although a pariah for Apartheid, my country achieved one noble act:
South Africa was one of only three countries admitting desperate Jews, fleeing from pre-Nazi Europe. (The others were China and the Dominican Republic).
In high school sixty per cent of my classmates were Jewish. My medical school class had many Jewish professors and a majority of the class were Jewish.
To this day, my closest friends are Jewish.
My father, doing door-to-door “Harvest Ingathering” received huge generous contributions from Jewish households. The same for my grandmother, who went door to door collecting cast off clothing for impoverished Indians,( brought in from India to farm the sugar cane).
It was excruciating for me to visit the Holocaust museum.
God should not fault one Jew for being an atheist. It is a miracle that any still attend synagogue!
Does God run a psychiatric clinic in heaven, for the six million guardian angels of the
Holocaust victims, who now suffer from post traumatic stress disorder?
God’s amazing love works miracles of healing in the human spirit. Our job is to experience that love and be transformed by it so we can be confident of God’s ability to do that for others. Still, some cases to seem to be on the extreme margins of God’s abilities, but that really is just our limited concept.
By the way, very few of those death camp survivors are still alive.
I have a hard time fitting myself within the Adventist conservative and liberal spectrum. God has really opened my eyes to God’s heart for justice and the racial, economic, and political injustices that exist in our urban cities. My liberal friends think I’m conservative because of my evangelical style and my emphasis on the Bible, and my conservative friends think I’m liberal because I’m always talking about social issues and justice. I can’t seem to figure out if I’m a conservative liberal or a liberal conservative.
My experience with conservative and liberal Adventist Christians is showing me that each side has something to offer us. The labels keep us from hearing each other and learning from one another. We are also missing out on important truths. When we really look at the Bible beyond the labels, we see the Bible emphasizes both personal righteousness (conservative values) and social justice (liberal values), freedom (conservative political ideology) and equality (liberal political ideology), Jesus (conservative theology) and justice (liberal theology)!
By rejecting one side, we end up with a limited view of God, theology, politics, and culture. As Rodney King once said “Why can’t we just along?”
Sam,
Forget the political labels because they are distracting. Forget the politically-correct concepts of “social justice” and “inequality” because they are illusions that will separate you from the power of God if you hold onto them. Instead, focus your energies on seeking the empowerment and guidance of the Holy Spirit so you can know exactly how He wants you working for Him. Then get ready to be amazed by what you see Him doing through you.
I’ve seen God do some pretty amazing things in the course of my ministry in His power. If God can use me, I know He can use you.
As it happens, the Spirit leads some of us to recognize a need for social justice and a need to reduce inequality.
Do you have strongly held convictions? Maybe we could find a way to dismiss them with the magic wand of “politically correct”.
Sam. i empathize with you in constantly seeking answers to why?? i’m almost 90 years old, and i’m still seeking, and reasoning, and not understanding,
why has man suffered masochistically for thousands of years, because of a happening of the first parents. After of course the casting out of heaven of Lucifer & his malevolent other supporters. Billions of human creatures have been involved in the continuous battles between good and evil, and except for us, on Earth today, are returned to the dust of the Earth. They lived, moved and had their being, in the past, perhaps also wondering what is Life all about, but in living comforts and harsh elements beyond our understanding of how they were able to tolerate seeing the sun rise the next day.
We today are facing a future with equal massive upheaval in the lives of each and every single living creature on Earth. Every day brings information of another mass destructive action of tragedy, starvation, pain, utter torture of millions; Migrations, to escape momentarily, the enemies of evil doers. What kind of fear is it that causes thousands to leave their homes, and risking life and limb, in boats not sea worthy, and taking their children, even small tots and babies, without life preservers invested in??
And all because of the rebellion of Lucifer. Was the perfect love of God, for Lucifer, worth, all the destruction of billions of Earth’s inhabitants?????? cont>
CONT> Yet, the Bible states that God loves us with an everlasting LOVE. i don’t understand what has happened to mankind on Earth?? Who can?? It isn’t logical. No reasoning can produce a scenario that can justify “THE DISASTER”, mankind has endured for ??????? many years. We didn’t request to be a part of this EARTH SPECTACULAR CONTROVERSY,yet we are reality.
No way i would volunteer to be a part of this DIVINE
HAPPENING, if knowing the script in advance. But we are here in September 2015, as the curtain seems to be lowering, and drawing to conclusion of human creatures on Earth. If our God does not appear very very soon, there will not be a humankind on Earth. Man now has the ability to destroy all life on Earth, and man has always used the latest weapons of mass destruction. We don’t know much of anything of what or how our GOD views “ALL THINGS” AND VALUES ALL HIS CREATIONS, Infinitely and Cosmologically in HIS ETERNAL UNIVERSES, of which HE is eternally involved, but, the BIBLE states that God LOVES us with an everlasting LOVE, and that GOD the CHRIST, in the person of Jesus of Nazareth, paid the ransom of every living soul to have ever lived,to be accepted into GOD’S eternity.
If the Bible is a work of fiction, then there is no GOD of LOVE. There is no resurrection to eternal life. We are all here for a season and then it’s all over for us eternally. My intelligence informs me that humankind are a miracle of reality of life. CONT>
CONT> That reality of life displays to me a Master’s Intelligent Design of other world origin. Because with ………years of life on EARTH, no life is possible without the “ORIGINAL SEED”. Man the ultimate intelligence on Earth can’t create life. The forces of evil godless people on Earth is growing larger every year, Billions. Except the days be shortened even the elect will be drawn into their disbelief of a creative GOD of LOVE. And the days until the Savior comes in glory are few.
The Bible is an amazing Book of Life. It reveals, through the person to person telling the story of creation by an ALMIGHTY GOD OF LOVE, creating all things, including the Universe, and then writing it down for posterity, by thousands, over many thousands of years. Some DIVINE inspired truth. Some myths, allegories, & metaphors. Some local, at the time, anecdotal adlibs by the Inspired as well as the scribes down through the ages. But we have it today to bring to our spirit’s, the TRUTH OF OUR ALMIGHTY GOD. The heavens declare the GLORY of God. Praise God for the HUBBELL Telescope. i believe GOD the HOLY SPIRIT, moves me, and speaks through me, that which is revealed, As Job spoke, “Tho HE slay me, yet will i trust Him”. Praise our ALMIGHTY GOD.
Earl, thank you for your detailed and inspired sharing of ideas and scripture. Your experience and wisdom is important to us all. Here are a couple of thoughts I’ve collected about life experience.
Do you know the difference between education and experience? Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don’t. Pete Seeger
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. Douglas Adams
Experience is a comb which nature gives us when we are bald. Proverb
Have a good day, Earl!
Earl,
Your insightful comment:
“Was the perfect love of God for Lucifer, worth the destruction of billions of Earth’s inhabitants ?”
The most loving thing God could have done, when He realized he had made “a mistake” in creating mankind prior to the Flood, would have been to translate Noah’s family directly to Heaven, instead of placing them in the ark,
Planet Earth should have been left EMPTY for Satan and his angels!
Billions of murders, rapes, atrocities, and all genocides, wars, epidemics and natural disasters would never have occurred. If God really loved mankind what was He thinking?
There were more than enough atrocities in the OT to have indicted Satan and validated God at the time of the crucifixion. That event alone was horrific enough to have persuaded “the universe” of Satan’s malice.
Two millenia of MISERY avoided!
Earl”s observation: “Billions of human creatures lived in harsh elements beyond our understanding”.
When visiting a magnificent castle in France’s Loire Valley, the guide explained that ordinary people today live better than those aristocrats.
Their castles were draughty and cold, rats and vermin abounded. Even the king’s bed, was infested with fleas and bed bugs! Disposal off human waste, disgusting. Our flush toilets alone, make us live better than kings!
The misery of the “peasants” in olden times was beyond comprehension!
That “the universe” looked on without compassion, is DISMAYING!
You falsely assume GOD is not ALL KNOWING. You falsely assume GOD made a mistake. You falsely assume that we played no part in this; when we were responsible for all of this.
Such children, let’s just blame everyone else; but now you create a stumbling block to others.
lucifer was jealous of us; he did it to himself, because of us. We ate the apple, broke the Law and now discard the Ultimate SACRIFICE. We created this bed; now we have to sleep in it. We want free choice; but not the consequences.
GOD gives us everything, even to the sacrifice of HIS SON; but we are never happy. We dig the hole and HE always creates a way; not because HE hates us, but because HE Loves us. If you are unable to understand that by now, there is not much hope; but HE can change anyone, just ask.
CONCERNED CHRISTIAN,
I do NOT falsely assume that God felt He had “made a mistake” in creating mankind, pre Noah’s flood.
I read in Genesis 6:6. “And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth and He was grieved in His heart”
God felt He HAD made a mistake and He would have wiped out the human race entirely, had not “Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord”. Genesis 6:8
EGW in her epic, “The Great Controversy between Christ and Satan” states that when “the universe” is persuaded of God’s goodness, Christ will come.
She catalogues catastrophe after catastrophe, atrocity after atrocity.
We now know that these historical events were NOT seen in “vision”, but were copied from other authors!
Had she really viewed these horrors in vivid TECHNICOLOR, heard the screams of the suffering, in DOLBY stereophonic sound, and experienced all in IMAX screen intensity, she would have known INTUITIVELY, that “the universe” LONG AGO would have validated God and indicted Satan.
Her rote copying, resulted in a dispassionate, dry, recital of Christians being devoured by wild beasts in Roman arenas.
Had she really seen in “vision”, men women and babies being torn limb from limb by ravenous, deliberately starved lions, she would have known that NO truly compassionate Angel or unfallen being could have any further doubt as to Satan’s MALICE.
The “Great Controversy” would have ended then and there.
WHY DIDN’T IT?
Because GOD does not make mistakes; but we do.
Genesis 6:
5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
HE made us in HIS image and placed us on this earth; that HE made for us. We once again failed. HE wiped out evil and destroyed all HE made for us.
But in HIS Love He always provides a way and rejoices even for one saved. We continually fail and want to blame others for our sins; because we are nothing more than children without HIM. We are the cause of the fight and part of it because we chose to be; we ate the apple. Pretty simple if you think about it.
I have noticed in Sister White’s writings that her disapproval seems keenly directed at those in the Remnant who show little or no impulse to reach out and advance the faith through Christlike ministry, witness, and testimony. We have in our denomination introverted people who fear making a mistake, and view righteousness primarily as “not doing anything wrong,” and this approach to Kingdom growth seems particularly tedious. The church in numbers and influence, it seems, progresses primarily through the ministry of individuals who don a happy and grateful mien and draw people magnetically to the loving Savior. Those whose call is primarily to introspection and monastic study and self-examination (to discern character traits yet in need of perfection)seem to create tepid relationships in congregations and may even alienate those who come to the Lord in search of a friend and spiritual guide. While it is not wrong to desire to live a spotless life, this would not appear to be a top-drawer assignment of an outreaching Remnant. As we engage in advancing knowledge about and love for Jesus, we will find that the selfish and the evil will be degraded in our lives. To focus primarily on ourselves and the color and texture of our spiritual naval fuzz would seem to be an offshoot proposition from the primary mission we have been given for this end time. We will be elevated inexorably to the stature of Christ as we do His work with the good spirit and magnetism of our Master, Jesus.
Edwin,
Look at where the church is growing the slowest or shrinking (North America, Europe, etc.) and you’ll most likely see where the members have been spiritually neutered by the failure of our spiritual leaders to connect the members with the Holy Spirit. By talking about the power of God being poured-out at some indefinite date in the distant future we have cultivated the contept that the power of God is not available to us now. We claim to be “people of the Word” but teach members to spend more time studying the writings of Ellen White than the Bible (evidence of this is the study references in the Sabbath School quarterly where the EGW items sometimes are 6 or more times in length than the Bible passages). We look to hired evangelists to come into a church and hold a public crusade for a few weeks, shut-down what ministries God is developing in individuals by requiring members to devote their energies to supporting the crusade and claim that is “doing God’s work.” With all that we should not be surprised to find many local churchs in spiritual comas and close to death.
Fortunately, God is powerful enough to raise-up a new, energetic body of believers from the spiritual rubble and the renewal of my faith with the ministry God has given me to do are evidence of that.
You are right William.
Do we as members not hold some responsibility for the spiritual comas? Maybe we just always look for someone else to blame?
One thing within wisdom though, should the unencumbered failures of the areas you list not be reviewed in total? We see, feel and relieve during this economic shift we are in every day; but should this not create an influx into the Church? You mention some reasons that may not be that beacon to draw; do we not also hold some blame there?
Yes we serve an ALL POWERFUL FATHER. We are beyond blood brothers in this fight against evil and we can do anything within our FATHER. Can we not perform our individual ministries and support the crusade at the same time? If we are the strong beacon; should it not draw others to help? Otherwise do we not have to choose individual ministries or the crusade? Are we not our own stumbling block to say we cannot do both?
I agree we are commanded to Love our families, our Church family and those around us first. But it is not hard to justify removing Love for those not around us also?
Thoughts?
Navel gazing, technically, it’s staring at your belly button. That’s the very technical version. So what does it actually mean? Navel-gazing, to put it politely, means that you are too wrapped into yourself to see beyond the greater world. So, what can you do to solve this? The obvious answer is “grow up” but that may seem slightly condescending to everyone. So, instead, you have to look at things in a more mature manner.
Some forms of Adventism conditions people to become very individualistic. For example, evangelicalism is about YOU “getting saved” so that YOU are right with God so YOU will go to heaven. This kind of Christianity emphasizes what is often referred to as a personal/individual relationship between YOU and God. Other religious and spiritual mindsets focus on what YOU are going to gain (inner peace, favorable personal circumstances, financial/material gain) as a result of YOU properly applying the right beliefs or formulas.
There are some who become stuck in this hyper-inward/individualistic focus, which is sometimes referred to as “navel-gazing.” It seems at times that spirituality can be so individualistic – me and my peace, me and my freedom, me and my enlightenment, me and my… etc. Our Adventist Christianity ideally should be about as much engagement in the world around us as it is in attending to our own inner reality and needs. Martin Luther King, Jr. said, “No one is free until we are all free.” Thank you, Larry for a thought provoking…
Sam, you raise the absolute issues.
Should we not feel remorse that we as individuals have taken so much time and removed focus from others? As a Body and within Love, should we not be focused on those outside the Body.
Without caution, is it not easy to enter 2 Peter 2:
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
We may fail as individual and we may fail as a Body; but if we remember who are FATHER is, we are capable of anything that is Good.
To all who care. Lets try to remember, that God has seen the end. He has decided that the end result makes it all worthwhile. No one will have any complaint in heaven.
The SDA Hierarchy has enshrined EGW as a Saint, much as the RCC creates Saints that grant favors to the belivers. This is ok for those who benefit, by receiving “peace” in their lives, removing the stresses that build up by ordinary living. But the ulterior motive by the churches is the same, “the moneyeeeee”. Follow the “moneyeee every time, for the reason.
“Jesus wants to be your friend”
I am not kidding, that was the headline on my email postings this morning. Actually, it is a good friend who is Latino and is named “Jesus” and lives in Mexico, and wants my friendship on Facebook.
Actually though, doesn’t “Jesus” our God desire to be our friend every day?
Regrettably, nature’s only real measure of what constitutes “accurate knowledge” is time — whereby stupidity ultimately disappoints urging us to reexamine our assumptions and information. Unfortunately, this also means that a lot of unnecessary suffering and “navel gazing”, may take place before the truth finally surfaces. Although accurate, the idea that, “Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment,” is also painfully inefficient (e.g. all the time wasted in studying, delaying, and shifting political illusions in the WO church fiasco)
But we can help the truth surface by choosing not to participate in these two groups. Look at what the conference in Norway just voted.(–see another AT article). Strictly speaking, don’t suffer fools or you’ll become one.
Fortunately, there is a third smaller, but salient group: The informed. These individuals are not pompous intellectuals, academics, journalists, or ordained pastors, administrators, that you might expect. Instead, a marked distinction of a genuinely informed group of individuals who are blessed with wisdom (the right use of knowledge) and their depth of perception and…
humility.