Volvo Church
by Jack Hoehn
By Jack Hoehn, October 23, 2013
Volvo just gave me a vacation.
For the price of a new station wagon for Deanne, they paid for round trip tickets for “Deanne and me” to Gothenburg, Sweden. There at the factory they handed us her new car built of Swedish steel at the rate of 54 cars an hour, the majority of which end up shipped to the USA, their largest market.
I’ve never owned a Swedish car before, although several people I like and respect have. One is my son Andrew. “Dad, do you know what the Volvo Mission Statement is?” he asked. I didn’t.
Perhaps, I teased, it is: “We no longer make the funniest looking cars on the road.” “Volvo’s don’t last forever; they just look like they do.” “Can’t afford a tank? Buy a Volvo.”
“No Dad, those would be advertising jingles. I mean a Mission Statement, a statement of goal or purpose.” “OK tell me.”
“No one will ever die in a Volvo by 2020.”
I let that sink in for a minute. Frankly I was very impressed. That was a lot deeper and more important than I had imagined. Volvo plans to build an injury proof car; so there will be no fatalities in one of their new cars within the next 6 years. (They are already producing their 2014 models.)
VIKINGS
Sweden, Norway and Denmark are lands of the Vikings. Vikings lived on the glacier scoured granite of Northern Europe. In their well-built wooden longboats with tall curled dragon prows, they either traded with or more often terrorized the rest of Europe, until Christ came in the form of missionaries. Christianity soon replaced their Pagan religion with the story of a god-man who turned the other cheek and was bruised for our iniquities.
Instead of feared attack boats furthering rape and rapine, Scandinavians began to build wooden stave churches, using the same dragons found at the prows of their boats as the finials of the church roof, this time showing that Christ had tamed the Dragon. There would be no more human sacrifice, Valhalla heaven of endless warring gods, praise of bloodshed, and glorification of death culture. Jesus of Nazareth took down another culture.
Sweden today seems to be post Christian, but their national glory is still clearly Protestant culture based. Their national hero, King Gustav Vasa, used Luther’s rebellion to support his own, and Sweden became a refuge for persecuted Protestants, and in modern times, a refuge for the oppressed and downtrodden of all nations. The Nobel Peace Prize comes from Scandinavia. Many human rights organizations are Swedish based.
VOLVO SAFETY
The Volvo factory runs 5 days of the week with just 2 shifts a day, no night shifts. Maintenance and repairs are done during the regular work day, no less–healthy night crews needed. It is Swedish neat and clean and non-polluting. Workers health and safety are carefully maintained. Each of an 8 or 10 person team changes their job every hour or so, to avoid boredom and repetitive work injuries. The 6 different models they make come down the assembly line in random array, so the worker is working on an XC 90 one minute, and an S 60 the next. Each model has a tank grade Swedish steel guard rail engineered into the side doors. Volvo invented and made freely available to all manufacturers without charge the 3 point seat belt all modern automobiles use. Their side air bags are different from the front air bags you have in your car, in that they are engineered to last for 6 seconds when inflated, unlike the front airbags’ immediate deflation after inflation, so that in a roll-over accident you will have protection for the period when the car continues to roll. So far only Honda and Volvo have re-engineered their cars to be safe in a partial offset frontal crash, where your front just clips a telephone pole or the headlight of an oncoming vehicle, unlike the head on crash for which all modern cars are designed for greater safety. (The majority of deaths in automotive crashes now come from partial offset crashes, now that full on frontal crashes have been engineered much safer.)
The Flamenco Red XC 70 all-wheel-drive station wagon they had built for Deanne is pictured here. Her car warns us when it wanders from its lane. It tells us when another vehicle is in the blind spot if we wish to change lanes. It automatically slows down from cruise speed when coming up behind a slower vehicle on the freeway. And it will stop itself below 30 mph if another vehicle, a bicycle, or a pedestrian suddenly moves into its path, with aid of a radar recognition system.
There are over 3,000 employees building Volvos in the huge complex northwest of Gothenburg. (They also assemble some models in Belgium, and their engines are built in other parts of Sweden. They partner with several companies for the marine engines, heavy trucks, and construction equipment Volvo also makes.) But instead of just the 3,000 assembling their cars, they also have over 6,000 engineers designing and refining their cars for safety and durability on the same site. They also design vehicles in California to make them visually attractive. But frankly they got me as a customer by their Mission Statement.
SELLING VOLVOS?
I’m not personally selling Volvos; I’m selling Jesus and his church.
So what is Adventism’s current Mission Statement? Sometimes they seem to be: “Sabbath starts at sundown.” “No pork or shrimp or coffee.” “No women in our pulpits.” “No domestic happiness permitted for homosexuals.” “No books or sermons by non-Adventists allowed.” “The world is 6,000 years old, believe it or not.” “The mother of Christ is not immaculate, but Sister Ellen was.” Ouch, it hurts me just to mischaracterize my church!
So here is a mission statement I’d like to copy from a Swedish business, once owned by Ford and now by a Chinese businessman.
“No one will ever be hurt in an Adventist church by 2020.” So help us God.
Jack,
Ok, don't panic, I'm hoping not to be here to cause trouble!!:)
On the mission statment, it is a great sentiment..
What I am interested in is the stat that many human rights organizations are Swedish based. I have just sent my blog to the editor, and in it made the point that Sweden is probably the most atheist nation in the world. (a poll in 2010, put just 18% of Swedish citizens saying "they believe there is a god".)
I also made the point that it is a deeply secular society. It is almost incongruous that an emphasis on human rights and such is hand in hand with secularism and atheistic leanings. As I said, I'm not here to cause trouble, but it is food for thought
btw. Volvo's yes, the old jokes abound. Hope your wife enjoys her new wheels!
Swedes have had a Christian culture since 800 AD or so, and a reformed very Protestant Christian culture for nearly 500 years that until very recent history was not atheistic or agnostic. The present generation of Swedes are coasting on the benefits of their grandfather's beliefs and culture. We will see how well they do with their godlessness in another generation or so.
But I tend to think most people who decide they don't believe in God are like not believing in Oxygen. They are still made in God's image and behave that way, just as you keep breathing even if you don't believe in oxygen.
btw Jack,
I should chastise you on one thing: I'm a BMW fan…what in the name of Thor is a good German doing buying a Volvo!?
I am a good German on dad's side, but my budget as a mission doctor, kept me in VW's, not BMW's up till now. I've owned a Beetle, Two Microbusses, and a Passat in the past. And I've had two second hand used Mercedes before. But no BMWs or Porsches.
Just to be fair I've also had Chevrolet pickups, a used Impala, Toyota Pickup, Toyota Minivans (the Previa was a great vehicle), and once a Mazda van. All good vehicles.
Memory just reminded me in days with children we also had a Chrysler Minivans, and I leased a Chrysler Pacifica for a couple of years, they were fine vehicles too….My childhood was in Ford and Plymouth station wagons. I drove a 1953 Ford pickup till I blew the engine. I drove a Jeep Cherokee till my firstborn took it over. My wife loved her Subaru Outback Wagon, 13 year with no repairs. I drove an Subaru Impreza for a while till my second son got that one. And the very first vehicle I drove was a used Hilman Minx! But now I 'm bragging….
My brother drives a Volvo station wagon that is nearing 20 years old. His defense to any suggestion that he replace it? "Why get rid of something that still works?"
I love the objective you propose! The only problem with achieving it is that a majority in the church still believe it is working while those who don't just leave. Major changes need to be made if we are to achieve that objective. We need to take a long, hard look at ourselves to identify what works and then change what doesn't. Ten years ago I had the huge blessing of being part of a group of very frustrated believers who decided to plant a new congregation where we could be free to develop according to God's plan instead of being bound by tradition. In that process we studied every element of how we "did church" to decide if it was positive or negative. Then we asked questions like, "If it is a negative, should we try to improve it, just get rid of it, or replace it?" The results surprised all of us. So we made changes. A lot of them. We outlined a church culture where we consciously give God the freedom to work with us and change us. The results have been nothing short of amazing. We have a reputation as a church where you can bring your hurts to be healed, where you can grow, where you have the freedom to be yourself while God transforms you according to His wishes.
The law of averages is in favor of Volvo's fatality free record since there are so few on the road! Saab produced the ugliest cars ever built, I think, followed closely by the awesome work of the French designers, the Peugeot! Always thought of Volvo as being primarily utilitarian, and in third place in the ugly contest.
And I think mission statement applied to Adventism will surely be fulfilled, Jack. Responsibility for belief rests on the individual.
The law of averages– Ouch! Not likely the church is going to disappear to achieve the objective.
A friend who is a retired US Air Force fighter pilot who served in Europe says the fighter aircraft Volvo made were much prettier than their cars.
Are you sure it wasn't SAAB that made those fighters?
Jack,
As a former owner of a couple of Saab's with several more among my immediate family, I still loved your story.
I have written a lot about spiritual abuse on other Atoday pages and will not repeat it here.
I do have a bit of bad news for you – a Chinese company now owns Volvo. They bought it from Ford. This is the fate of many well-known brands – they are bought and sold like commodities. We will see how well the Chinese manage the future of this legendary brand.
Meanwhile manufacture of Saab's has ceased after GM's Dutch buyer collapsed. So it is possible that by 2020 nobody will ever die in a Saab either.
There is more than one way to achieve a "negative" objective.
Volvo employees told me that Ford came and took away all their best ideas, then sold the company. So far their Chinese owners have left them run the company the way they want to, and they are much easier bosses than Ford…. That's the word from the Volvo factory floor. We'll see if they can be profitable or not. Quality is not always cheap.
So will the future of the SDA church be a Volvo church, a Saab church, a BMW church, a Toyota church, a Yugo church or something else?
The safest way to run a church is to be very careful whom you allow to darken the doorway. If you do not believe me then attend one of the current safety seminars being presented by the risk-management people. There is a lot of risk involved in outreach and welcoming strangers into your midst. They bring their sinful backgrounds with them. Jesus himself ran a very high-risk ministry. He did not promis that we wouldn't be hurt – He promised that we would eventually be healed.
Our particular congregation and facility are very guest-friendly and very kid-friendly, both of which entail a fair amount of risk. Once you are inside the building there are very few doors so you cannot easily control when or where people do and do not go. We operate on a fairly high level of trust and therefore a fairly high level of risk.
The safest way to protect he occupants of a car or a church is to isolate each of them in their own padded cell. Placing the words Christian Fellowship in your church's name makes it tough to do that.
So we strive for reasonable risk commensurate with our mission, rather than minimal risk which is what the lawyers and bureaucrats are asking for. In reality I think the Risk Management people are really striving for plausible deniability so the Conference will not have to pay damages for injuries or abuse.
Still as one who was spiritually, and in a few cases physcally, abused by both church school teachers and SS teachers, I love the goal of nobody ever being hurt in a SDA church. I just do not know how we will get there in this present world.
I usually agree with you, Jack, and I love the story. Like Chris, I also appreciate the sentiment. But noble sentiments don't necessarily make good mission statements. Are you sure that you are drawing a valid parallel between protecting automobile occupants from the consequences of physical laws and protecting humans from the consequences of human nature? Precision airbags, tank grade steel rails, sophisticated warning systems – all produced within a high tech, highly controlled, antiseptic production facility? I don't know…
Somehow, I feel really uneasy with such a perfectionistic sounding mission for the church. Nanny state secular society is way ahead of the church when it comes to the utopian mission of perfectionism – of reforming human nature so that no one will ever be hurt or seek to hurt. How has that been working out, beyond producing a very chaotic, regulation laden society, with more levers and switches to measure and produce hurt and offense than a soundboard mixer? "No hurt" missions tend to produce "no hurt" rules and regulations, breeding clamorous identity groups and exposing nerve bundles which occasion more hurts than existed before the mission was undertaken.
Following Jesus doesn't always mean that we will avoid hurting or offending others, as Jesus own ministry abundantly demonstrates. Nor does the mission of no one ever being hurt in an Adventist Church necessarily have anything to do with Christ. Let's be careful about formulating mission statements that encourage or enable us to shift our focus away from being Christ to the world through God's grace and indwelling Spirit. Hopefully – but not necessarily – less hurt will be a byproduct of that endeavor. Jack, you tempt me to buy a Volvo, but not to turn my church into a Volvo production facility.
In terms of it being a club (membership) the church has the power to un-club members who violate their sworn agreement at the time of joining. So the kind of membership it retains and the character of society it develops rests on the administrators of the church. And that is where no exact template can be developed because of the very nature of a religious system: the multiple moving targets involving discipline, theology, effect of periodic elections throughout the system, demographics, member commitment, etc.
So, those who have visualization of what it out to be are hopeless dreamers, since the church trundles through the tunnel of time careening from the right to the left wall without limit.
The church is not a factory, sorry Volvo, but a dealership.
So, car buyers at the church club store hold the purse strings and ultimately decide to purchase (join) on their particular evaluation of what is offered. Selling not Volvos, but Jesus Christ is a laudable and desirable product, but most salesmen peddle features they like themselves.
Being hurt is a choice one makes (except for imposed physical abuse). The church can't hurt you.
The church can't hurt you? Have your forgotten the word "persecution" and how often through history it has been the church doing it? Historians list mass murderers like Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, etc. while often overlooking that the most consistent killers and tormenters of the largest numbers of people through history have been those doing it in the name of God.
Being hurt is a choice one makes (except for imposed physical abuse). I was referring to emotional "hurt." Also it was limited to the SDA church.
Bugs-Larry,
While I do not agree with everything you said I certainly agree with your Dealership analogy.
I have often said that preachers are like car salesmen – selling you a good ride here on earth and/or a ride to heaven. Like all salesmen, the most effective are those who have convincd themselves that they have a superior product.
Then I go one step further and say that evangelists are like used-car salemen because they do not have to run a service department. For the new-car dealership however, the service department is mandatory.
Disclaimer – I am both the son and the father of an SDA pastor (but I am not my own grandfather 8-). I love pastors but I also have an insider's view of the business. It is very much like an auto dealership. You can take your profit from sales but most of your overhead is in after-sales service. Hopefully you can at least break-even on service. An evangelist on the other hand has to take all of their profit from sales and has no service overhead.
Evangelists. When I was an SDA pastor about thirty five years ago, my pastor buddies and I used a term "evangelistic count" which referred to their inclination to overestimate their audiences and baptisms. Not a serious indictment, but in harmony with your car salesman analysis.
There is a definite tension between evangelists and local pastors. Both groups have their horror stories about the other group. Some evangelists cross-over after a while and become local pastors. Not many local pastors (except former evangelists) tend to move the other direction – Shawn Boonstra being a notable exception.
I have my own collection of stories about evangelists – funny and not-so-funny, many of them told to me by evangelists around a dinner table. Few evangelists will turn-down a good home-cooked meal and my mother knew how to cook.
Matthew 12:20 is pretty safety conscious, pretty gentle, pretty careful of the tender, the weak, the vulnerable: Gentleness- Tenderness- Justice- first, victory afterwards.
"A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he has brought justice through to victory."
I hear you, Jack. My problem isn't with the sentiment, but with the analogy. Sometimes the church needs to comfort the afflicted, and sometimes the church needs to afflict the comfortable. The same Jesus whom you quoted caused a world of hurt among those in the "church" who supported the religious and political status quo of His day. Those who most stridently complain about hurt caused by the SDA Church today are usually wanting to crash church standards and doctrines. They appear less like bruised reeds than like intellectuals fighting over theology and church structure.
The "don't ask, don't tell" form of Adventism that characterizes the Church in many institutional centers throughout the NAD doesn't really directly hurt anyone. It asks little and demands nothing except tolerance. It's very safe and comfortable – like a Volvo. But also like the Volvo, it doesn't excite much passion. Where there is no hurting, there is no need for forgiveness. The most deeply loving relationships are, it seems to me, more characterized by the willingness to forgive and ask forgiveness than by the absence of hurts. Bringing healing is quite different from preventing hurt.
So this is my question, Jack: Do churches ever need to be shaken up? What if your church or my church has bcome Laodicean? As a physician, have you ever found that preventing and curing disease sometimes necessitates the infliction of pain on some parts of the body?
A car like this (even in 2020) will require servicing from time to time and new tyres, together with replacement of worn or damaged parts. This will include servicing the car which requires changing the air filter, oil filter, brake disc pads, oil, fuel filter, spark plugs and doing various checks on the computer system, safety controls and equipment. The vehicle will obviously come with an owner's manual which will almost always stipulate various guidelines and instructions on how the vehicle is operated and how it should be cared for and maintained. Filling olive oil for example, into the engine, with the most noble intentions, or pouring water in the fuel tank, can only mean disaster. The bar for such a vehicle is set quite high and only the best specified parts and accessories should be used to keep it at optimum performance and condition. Most manufacturers will recommend that their instructions and service requirements be carefully followed. Failure to do so will make void the vehicle's warranty should this go unheeded.
The Bible is the owner's manual for the Church. Following its precepts and guidelines is critical to the well being of the church. Any deviation from what is specified and revealed as its fundamental principles of doctrine and belief places the church at risk. The writings of Ellen White complement and supplement the Bible, in that it points us to the owner's manual and focuses heavily on trusting the owner himself – Christ Jesus – by default.
The blog lists some tongue in cheek comments in the third last paragraph which take a swipe at traditional Adventism (mischarcterized of course) mixing up some truths and trojans. To me it mischaracterizes Adventism. The one insinuation that caught my attention the most was “The mother of Christ is not immaculate, but Sister Ellen was.” and then the one about "no happiness for homosexuals" which firstly are not our mission statement as a church and secondly seek to distort Adventism as a whole.
Clearly to me, that's tossing sand in the engine! (With good intentions of course!)
Trevor Hammond
Trevor, I agree we need to follow the owner's manual. But the Bible isn't that. It was not written by the manufacturer of the church, it was written by fellow drivers. Like a "Swedespeed.com" website where Volvo owners or enthusiasts get together to share their experiences. Now the most useful posts are pinned or posted near the top of a blog (canonized?) for the benefit of new Volvo owners or fans.
Likewise I do want to know what was good for the church when Moses wrote in the 18th Egyptian dynasty, and in King Ahab's time, and in the Roman Empire in a rough and tough port city like Corinth filled with sailors and froward prostitutes. But to suggest that this means that Christian women in every church everywhere need shut up and to not ask questions in any other church, any other place, any other time, is to misunderstand what the Bible is, and is not. It is a true record of humanities experience with the living God, it is good advice to learn from their strengths and weaknesses, but it most definitely is not an owner's manual.
That would be like putting olive oil from a wooden wheel in Corinth, into the crankcase of Adventism in a 21st century model Turbo church.
Jack,
You've explained the evils of the critical-historical interpretive method. Ted Wilson, Prez, has spoken against that as a way to understand the Bible. ;<)
In Adventism our administrators are servants of the church, not popes speaking divine revelations ex-cathedra, thankfully. We appreciate their service, listen to them, and then do what we feel God wants us to do.
Jack –
Without getting bogged down in whether the analogy to automobile production is felicitous, I wonder if you might unpack a bit more what you mean by "No one will ever be hurt in an Adventist Church by 2020." As I read the Bible, encounters with the divine often entailed considerable hurt. I think of Jacob wrestling with the "angel;" I think of God's call to Abraham to sacrifice Isaac; I try not to think of God's call to Abraham to circumcise his entire household; I think of St. Paul's Damacus experience. I could go on and on. Oftentimes in Scripture, the messages – "peace be still," "Lo I am with you always" – are preceded and accompanied by considerable divinely produced fear, anxiety and hurt.
The conflicts over women's ordination, same sex relationships, orthopraxy, and YLC within the Church are examples of situations where, as momentum moves in one direction or another, and church members keep moving or ignoring the traffic signs, people inevitably get hurt. How do you see your mission statement as remotely realistic, and how do you see it being practically implemented, without adversely impacting other legitimate values and priorities? Is it desirable or possible for the Church to maintain an identity, and at the same time find new paradigms and priorities which enable it to transcend the issues and forces that now produce collisions and hurts?
Nathan,
I notice up higher you make a reference to one of your favourite topis, the "nanny state".
Here's your comment:
"Nanny state secular society is way ahead of the church when it comes to the utopian mission of perfectionism – of reforming human nature so that no one will ever be hurt or seek to hurt."
I found this rather amusing observation putting another perspective on this. Thought you may find it interesting.
Here's the link:
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/religious-right-nanny-state-view-liberty-university
Also more details at the end of this page:
It makes me think of SDA Colleges in the not too distant past.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/liberty-isnt-free-liberty-university-inside-jerry-falwell-u
Sorry for distracting you, Chris. I should have simply said "secular society" and not sounded the "nanny state" dog whistle. So far, the thread has stayed pretty well on topic I think. Let's keep it that way.
In August 2010, Ford completed its sale of Volvo to the parent of Chinese motor manufacturer Geely Automobile for $1.8 billion.
I doubt changing mission statements from:
“Sabbath starts at sundown.” “No pork or shrimp or coffee.” “No women in our pulpits.” “No domestic happiness permitted for homosexuals.” “No books or sermons by non-Adventists allowed.” “The world is 6,000 years old, believe it or not.” “The mother of Christ is not immaculate, but Sister Ellen was.”
to:
“Have you own choice of Sabbath.” “Pork, Coffee, shrimp are O.K.” “Only women are qualified to nurture.” “Homosexuality, polygamy, bestiality are acceptable as long as you are happy”. ”SDA authors and preachings are excluded.” “Faith based Evolution is core belief.” “All female deities are immaculate.”
would attract many. They would just raise another generation of skeptics of different stripes.
Volvo Church, Rolex Church, LV Church, etc. etc. may have consumer appeal but the core value of a Christian Church should be Christ centered not brand name centered.
This in reply to your second paragraph:
You may be partially onto something here. The concept of Sabbath is voided since earth wasn't created in seven days. Prohibition of eating pork and shrimp is artificially, mentally imposed, coffee is certifiably good for you with antioxidants galore. Your other charges are ludicrous, maybe a sly attempt at humor.
Customer appeal is underrated. Love is magnetic, and since that is what God is, according to Jesus, a church with that is its primary focus, it seems to me, would have broad customer appeal. Call it the No-day Acceptance Church.
When you have a system that has for many decades majored in minors (SDA), shifting gears to more important stuff like God is Love, is expecting too much, I think.
Classic Adventist bashing…ratcheting up in spurts, huh?
Classic because “coffee is certifiably good for you” is quintessential ‘truth with mixed error.’ Coffee may arguably be “good for you,” but caffeine is “certifiably” bad for you.
‘Naturally,’ there is no practical reason to drink coffee other than for caffeine delivery.
Someone should write a blog about this. This is so classic, and so typical.
At church this is the first time I notice the variety of cars including a Volvo. Inside I watch some of the members and immediately I said this church is more a like “good hospital”.
I saw a man that once lost his fortune and almost his family, on his desperations he went drinking. A friend invited him to our church, little by little he started to read the Bible, he was baptized. Eventually all his family came to the church. This little church helped to find peace of mind and heart and more important the amazing grace of Jesus. He recovered his family; his 3 children are professionals and his fortune is greater. This businessman he shares his experience and helps others in difficult circumstances. It was so refreshing to seen him and all his family participating in the service singing and praising the Creator of heavens and earth.
In Kingdoms of the Cults Walter Martin maintained that the Majors of SDA are biblical. However within there is no lack of pundits either emphasizing or fussing about the minors.
Experience trumps theory. When I was a member, it was the "minors" that affected my life.
Here are a few:
And be sure to suffer guilt for every wrong, especially violations of the above list.
Oh, and Walter Martin (1928-1989), never an SDA, long forgotten, is a wonderful authoritative source, plenty of people, I'm sure, have joined the church, or maintained memberhip, responding to his analysis!
Thanks, in a way, for the transparency. Clearly, truth abuse was the trauma source.
As “don’t eat pork” was perhaps the one “don’t” listed above that actually appears in the Bible, it would seem that when you got older you might have been able to put some other traditions in some sort of rational, explicable perspective.
It is sad to witness your pain. I would still be interested in knowing what the proverbial ‘last straw’ was though; since you did become an Adventist minister.
My "trauma" (resulting in leaving the ministry and the church) has nothing to do with my don't list. My "trauma" resulted from the SDA conflict with reality. Adventist theology is at odds with the scientific world and is beset with an illegitimate birth (1844 fiasco).
Why do I have to grow up? Wa wa wa, I don't want to!
Also my list is better than your list! See, if I had been raised as Presbyterian, not one thing in my list would apply. And that goes part way to making my point about "minors" and their importance to maintaining oneself as a good SDA.
And drat, I have been trying my best to conceal my "pain." Now I am outed (no, not the gay kind)! Well, that pain went immediately away a long time ago with the "last straw" of my realization that Adventism was a self imposed tax on my life. My alternative hitherto unrevealed true last straw was Ingathering and the annual millstone with its post Adventist effect that lingers to this day. I still will not attach Christmas lights to me my house, an almost fatal flaw my Catholic wife detects in me. My explanation about the ingathering and its psychological effects on me leaves her clueless.
Here is the final nail in my "trauma" revelation. After leaving the church and ministry here is a list of my occupational itinerary:
No trauma anywhere. One last thing, I'm so glad my two kids vacated the church when I did. Son is a captain with Alaska Airlines, daughter has national champion gymnast son. No Adventist in those ranks, as far as I know.
Great response, Larry. And thanks for sharing. Don't know that I completely agree with the "self-imposed tax" analogy. But I like it. I certainly agree with the "self-imposed" part, and am glad for your sake that you have been able to reconcile your choices with your conscience.
However, the fact that you frequent this website might lead some to question whether you are being completely honest with yourself about having excised all seared vestiges of your Adventist conscience. I really hope that your hurts have not immunized you against the ability to find and follow a God who is much bigger than the Adventist experience that left such a bitter taste in your life. You know, God doesn't build only Volvos or even just cars. But I do think, to use another slogan, that He calls every human to be all that he or she can be – in His army.
The traumas that you list do not include the circumstances under which you left the ministry, which provides pretty good job security. Job transitions can be quite traumatic. I wonder if perhaps, in the circumstances surrounding that transition, you may have felt some pretty deep hurts and rejections. I wonder whether you left the ministry due to your theological convictions, or whether your theological convictions may have evolved after your employment with the Church terminated.
No need to respond if its too personal. The question just occurred to me.
I have no bitter tastes in my life, not even at the Adventist church. I left the ministry without anger or malice. I suffered trauma, not by anyone there, but by the process of leaving since job security was a concern, though not primary. Since I grew up in the church, it took a number of years to process all the angles. I had been well treated by hierarchy and church members, experienced no rejections of note, so there was no rocket fuel of animas to shoot me out the door. It was a purely theological and ethical motivation. After the decision was made, the anguish ended and I looked forward to a new adventure. As a hospital chaplain, I had a dying patient reveal that his only life regret was that he felt he hadn't truly lived because he had been so cautious, hadn't taken chances. I determined not to have that regret on my death bed.
As I have mentioned elsewhere on this forum, I support anyone's religious journey. My Adventist college room mate recently joined the Church of Christ. Another friend rejoined the SDA church, both of which I supported in their choice. I never regretted leaving Adventism, not once, never looked back, and have no hankering to return. I'm on this forum because I enjoy the intellectual exercise it represents, I like being challenged and enjoy needling sometimes (usually with a bit of humor, usually undetected!).
There. I'm stuck with this story!
Grow up, Larry. The world is full of don'ts, most of which are not central, but all of which reinforce things that are central to those who usually have our best interests at heart. Let me share a few that I grew up with:
I didn't need Adventist rules to keep guilt thriving. Life is full of rules that affect our lives. The nice thing about becoming an adult is that with reasonable intelligence and common sense, we get to individuate – decide for ourselves which of the rules we learned as a child are central and essential to who we have become and want to be, and which are non-essential – perhaps even detrimental.
Maybe we decide to completely reject the identity in which those who cared about us the best they knew how tried to mold us. I always thought that the rules I grew up with were intended to help me live a healthier, happier life. Silly me. I guess I wasn't smart enough to figure out that if disobedience made me feel guilty, it was because adults in my life wanted to use arbitrary rules to psychologically torment me.
Your experience with the SDA Church pretty much parallels the 20th Century repudiation of culture and traditional authority that was put on steroids in the 1960's. Throwing rocks at the mirror because you don't like parts of what you see is not so much a reaction to Adventism as it is a byproduct of the distortional effects of the chosen mirrors through which Western elites, steeped in pagan trinity of Marx, Darwin, and Freud, view themselves, history, society, religion, and the larger world.
You, and others who have similar issues with the SDA Church, are simply products of your time. Your quarrel with Adventism is simply a skirmish in the larger war that is being waged against God in general, and the authority of Judeo-Christian traditions and philsophy in particular – assumptions which have permeated, constrained, and guided Western Civilization for some 400 years. Were it not for the cross and the resurrection, we should despair for the cause of God.
It is the majors that keep me in the Church. Somehow the minors did not bother me since I always consider them secondary, tertiary or even less.
That's not so easy as a child. When one reaches adulthood, he can then choose which, if any of religious proscriptions to observe.
Instead of telling children that movies, jewelry, swimming or playing football on Sabbath is wrong, they should be taught general principles of what is read, seen, and activities that are beneficial. Making the Sabbath a "no-play" day does not encourage Sabbath observance but a distaste for it.
Well, for whatever it’s worth, which isn’t much, count me as one of those who doesn’t believe (for even a nanosecond) that Larry is being honest with himself; since it seems pretty obvious that he is angry at Adventist culture and theology; yet doesn’t appear to want to be.
There’s something positive to be said, right?
The one salient thing about Larry’s list of “don’ts” is that it is hyperbolic. It is over the top because most of these things are ancillary at best. Some are traditions misunderstood as doctrines; and some are clearly worded (spun) for effect.
As has been said, these seem to be a list of things which are examples and sources of trauma that might have been approached more discriminatingly in adulthood.
(Consider the above “needling” if it pricks).
Wow, Stephen, you clearly know me better than I do myself. And only a nanosecond intervened before you discerned my dishonesty with my very self. Awesome! And here I thought my "act" was worth a Hollywood trophy! I've so tried to conceal my "trauma."
Now I have to confess! I have no anger at Adventist culture, would if I was still a part of it. And no anger at Adventist theology, would be if I was forced to accept it. No anger at any associates before intellectually walking out the front door of the church (I'm a front egresser (a word invented by me), not a back slider. Woa, there goes the old me telling whoppers again, blindly skidding over my repressed psyche.
OK, Stephen, can't you just go along with a gag? Just for a moment, pretend I am telling the truth about myself, and ask yourself why it seems impossible for you to accept there could be a me like me? Could it be you have inadvertently revealed something hidden about yourself? Why does my intellectual departure from Adventism disturb you? Are you secretly wobbly? (A little needling going on here!)
Now that my charade is blown, I must hurry along and review posts in this forum to glean trauma and anger from those who are, so I can be a more acceptable straw man.
Larry, I do see some of me in you, actually a lot of me…when I was about 18 years old. That’s not a shot. I questioned assumptions and authority then, as I do now. I just found—and/or was presented with—different ‘answers’ at a different point in life.
(This possibly occurred because I was allowed/permitted/encouraged to question assumptions and authority back then.)
I gotta remember that this site is open to both Adventist questioning and bashing. But why bother to (continue to) bash? You and yours have ‘escaped,’ haven’t you? Why linger? Oh, that’s right, intellectual stimulation…
(Ya' see why I ain’t buyin' it?)
"bashing. . .?" Maybe you meant Bashas' a grocery chain in Arizona. No, I reread your post and now I understand my bothering, infiltrator role on the forum. I'm a basher, and a lingering one, at that. And a liar, too, or at least inept at psychological self evaluation.
In the face of my deficiencies, I need advice, Jack. What should I do?
See, Stephen, you got me so rattled I called you Jack. But, considering my crippled psyche, what else can one expect?
You haven’t lied to us, my man. Why would you consider yourself a liar? I surely do not. To the contrary I think that you’re an honest guy.
We’re all probably “inept at psychological self-evaluation.” That’s why psychologists have a legitimate profession. (I could obviously use some psychological counseling.)
My advice would be for you to get into a Volvo Seventh-day Adventist Church, and try not to cause any accidents. But then again, you asked Dr. Hoehn.
Your advice is loaded with good humor! If I can locate a Volvo Adventist church (may have to consult with Jack on that one) would it be considered an "accident" of some sort if I maintained my basher and infiltrator role? Could be a problem there!
My liar supposition was based on your statement: (Ya' see why I ain’t buyin' it?)
A basher and “infiltrator” (your word) role would not be conducive to safe and pleasant travels, even in a well-engineered vehicle. It would undoubtedly “be a problem there.”
The thing is the Jesus character Larry. (To use another metaphor) He isn’t exactly an a la carte type of Person. He either is the Son of God or He is not; all or nothing. We are presented with the same decision.
Bugs-Larry,
"If I can locate a Volvo Adventist church" – My invitation is still open. Come celebrate with us next Sabbath! We have a special SS class for "recovering Adventists". This class is open to both present and former Adventists, as well as people recovering from spiritual and emotional trauma inflicted outside the SDA church. Surprise – not all abusers are SDAs 8-).
Or you can come to my class and learn things about the Sanctuary they probably never told you in college or Seminary 8-).
Thanks for the invitation twice offered. I think my seat on the mother ship has been sold to someone else! I have no anguish regarding my church history. In the first place, I just am not a "joiner." I have attended other churches, including the bad, bad, evil, papacy church with my wife–a trip honoring her, not the quirky (extending the same niceness as before) theology therein, but haven't come close to enrolling in any ecclesia . In the second place belief as a Christian without the barnacles of doctrine fits me perfectly. I would comfortably guest-attend your class and I would be polite, without violating any of my canons. But I think I would enjoy more just sitting down with you and having a great conversation.
I do still have affection for the passengers on my early ride on the Ellen Ship. My experience with them is similar to my experience with my ex-wife, who enters my orbit at family events, whew, it is positively renewed, the reason, we are not together any more. Just not much in common.
Well the Ellen Ship may orbit the Mother Ship but they are different rides. Ditto for the Policy Ship. Bot hof these orbits around the Mother Ship are rather eccentric and elliptical.
Last I looked there are still seats available on the Mother Ship. Too bad you don't want one.
In my little church we don’t waste energies and what we can’t do, the emphasis is showing God’s love in a practical way.
The same men that yesterday (Sabbath) we were at church worshiping, today (Sunday) we went with our kids for voluntary work. We went in our cars, except the Volvo, to fix and make it nice the room of a child whose life has been limited by a chronic disease. It was a very nice surprise for the kid and his family when they returned from their Sunday activities. By the way the beneficiaries are not SDA and probably this was the first time they saw some Adventists.
David,
What a wonderful story! I enjoy few blessings so much as those I get from doing similar work. Keep it up!
Go Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Chrysler, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundi Christians!
Sounds like trumpets being blown. What happened to the principles of Matt 6:1-4?
In Jesus' view the one's who published their good deeds were the dysfunctional ones with screwed up theology.
I'm hoping that has all changed.
The Jewish leaders Jesus was talking about made a great display of their apparently good deeds so they could be seen by others. It was all focused on them.
What you're seeing here is a celebration of the blessings that come from working in the manner of Jesus to improve the lives of others. Those of us who are actively involved in helping ministries are so blessed by the experience that we have to celebrate what we've seen God do. The joy that comes from having been God's hands and watching Him do things beyond our ability fills our hearts and overflows. You can't keep it to yourself. You have to share it. Sharing about what we have seen God do encourages others to get involved and become His hands, too. Yes, we have the privilege of being there and what we share is our experience, but it is a celebration of the greatness and love of God.
If one is engaged in good and legitimate activities on Thursday, what makes them wrong on the 7th day? Doing good should be performed every day. Attending church is only slightly less than resting at home, and the commandment specifially stated that the Israelites were not to leave their tents. Determining what is "rest" should be for each individual to decide. If church attendance is desired, fine; but it may not at all be enjoying the Sabbath to sit in pews and listen to a sermon.
“What happened to the principles of Matt 6:1-4?
In Jesus' view the one's who published their good deeds were the dysfunctional ones with screwed up theology.”
As Nathan has pointed out, Chris, “There is sometimes a fine line between boasting and witnessing;” hence the explicit Matthew 6:1-4 “beware” advice. As self-centered and ego-driven as we are I am thoroughly convinced that it's impossible not to boast when violating this admonition.
Good point Chris. There is sometimes a fine line between boasting and witnessing. Since the story I am about to tell is not really mine, but my wife's – well, her's and God's – I think I'll tell it without worrying about whether my theology is screwed up.
Yesterday, three of the boys from the house that Dee Dee oversees, for kids who have aged out of the foster care system, decided to come to church. They had driven to the service for young adults, and afterward were taking one of the boys to work at the pizza shop. On the way they were stopped by a cop for having a tail light out. The officer immediately ran a DMV check and found out that the driver had just gotten off parole for selling narcotics. To top it off, the vehicle wasn't insured, and the passengers had no I.D. The search of the car was clean, but things weren't looking good.
The driver pleaded with the officer, explaining to him that he had been taken off the streets 9 months before, and was in a program called "Inspire" for kids who had aged out of the foster care system; that he had been clean for nearly a year, and was getting his life turned around. His mentor was planning to take him on Monday to purchase insurance and get the tail light fixed. In fact, he and his friends had just come from church.
Since it was Saturday, you can imagine that the cop wasn't real impressed with his creativity. But David insisted. "Call Mrs. Schilt if you don't believe me. But she might not answer, cause she's at church." "Okay," said the officer, "I'll bite. Let me see your cell phone." The officer scrolled through the contact list and recent calls, and then asked, "Who is Dee Dee Schilt?" "She's my program director; call her." "No, that's okay. I don't need to," said the officer. "By the way, you might want to read her most recent text. She just texted to say that the second service sermon is great, and you should come back for it."
"Now listen, I'm going to let you go. But I expect you to get that tail light fixed and have insurance by Monday. I'm entering this encounter in the system. If you don't get these things fixed, and if you get stopped by anyone, it will be a $1,500 fine. Have a nice day – and good luck to you." David says it is the first time he can remember having an encounter with a cop where he was not taken off in handcuffs.
Maybe, Jack, that's sort of what you had in mind when you talked about no one getting hurt in an Adventist Church. Isn't it amazing how we can delude ourselves into believing in empirically unprovable, unverifiable God sightings when we imagine that we are following Him? Pretty sick how religion can mess with your mind!
Go Christlike Cops willing to give a kid the benefit of the doubt! Go Christlike Adventists willing to give kids a lift in the right direction! Go commenters sharing these uplifting safety, health, rescue in Volvo Adventism stories with us!
I never cease to be amazed by God's ability to provide solutions!
“So what is Adventism’s current Mission Statement? Sometimes they seem to be: “Sabbath starts at sundown.” “No pork or shrimp or coffee.” “No women in our pulpits.” “No domestic happiness permitted for homosexuals.” “No books or sermons by non-Adventists allowed.” “The world is 6,000 years old, believe it or not.” “The mother of Christ is not immaculate, but Sister Ellen was.” Ouch, it hurts me just to mischaracterize my church!”
We rent the church to meet the Sabbaths from a Congregational Church. “God don’t judge you neither we” says at their billboard.
They don’t care about the Sabbath. They meet for less than 2 hours on Sundays. No restrictions on food or drinks. The pulpit and ministry is not restricted by gender. Gays and lesbian are especially welcome. Mr. Darwin’s evolution is accepted. There is not a Sister Ellen among them.
Looks like they have the “Volvo church” in 2013 … but still they are hurting and hurting bad. Their church each year has fewer members and the few regulars are older.
You describe an interesting contrast with two very different congregations with one thing in common: the absence of the Holy Spirit to guide and empower. So long as that absence continues they are each doomed to insignificance, irrelevance and decline.
Bill,
Right on! We tend to be distracted and attribute the causes of decline to the minors and prescribe a brandname solution. It is an exercise in futility without getting the diagnosis right.
Bill,
Right on! We tend to be distracted and attribute the causes of decline to the minors and prescribe a brandname solution. It is an exercise in futility without getting the diagnosis right.
Bill,
Right on! We tend to be distracted and attribute the causes of decline to the minors and prescribe a brandname solution. It is an exercise in futility without getting the diagnosis right.
Bill,
Right on! We tend to be distracted and attribute the causes of decline to the minors and prescribe a brandname solution. It is an exercise in futility without getting the diagnosis right.
Sorry, for posting it four times. The 'add comment 'did not seem to work and I press it mutliple times.
Jack
Once again you unload us with your biggest false analogy yet! You do keep outdoing yourself kudos to you. It would be nice to be in a place where nobody gets hurt but there is one problem, human nature! I also find it odd that you would mention a few doctrinal issues as hindrances to your utopian unrealstic wish for adventism. With such a mindset it would have been difficult to be in Jesus' church. consinder the following text
56: He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
Looks like a lot of people got hurt! Its too bad you were not around to give Jesus your Volvo analogy and say "Jesus wants us to eat his flesh. Ouch, it hurts me just to mischaracterize my church!
So here is a mission statement I’d like to copy from a Swedish business, once owned by Ford and now by a Chinese businessman.
“No one will ever be hurt in an christian church by AD70.” So help us God.''
I'm not saying Christianity should not hurt you. If you are a liar, it will hurt you. If you are a thief, it will hurt you. If you are a white colonial exploiter, it will hurt you. If you are a male chauvanist enjoying your dominance, it will hurt you. If you are sure gays are going to hell, it will hurt you. If you think taking someone's husband for your own is OK because he loves you, it will hurt you.
I'm saying I want a church where you and I can't easily hurt each other.
It is painful to not hurt the vulnerable and weak. It takes self-control and self-restraint and self-abnegation to submit to each other. There is plenty of pain in a Volvo Church, but the pain is inflicted on us by Christ and his Righteousness, not by us and our righteousness on others.
I want a church that lets you choose to not drink coffee, but does not let you shut down the coffee vendors to prevent me from drinking coffee. I want a church that lets you believe creation happened magically and simply, but I don't want you to legislate that if I don't agree with you I'm out the door. I want a church that keeps Sabbath, but not that legislates that eating in a restaurant is wrong on Sabbath, but having a punch card in the SDA caffeteria is OK. I don't mind if you don't swim on Sabbath, but I don't want you telling my children not to swim. I want a church that lets each of us take up the cross Christ gives us, but that does NOT let us nail each other to crosses of our own construction. There is plenty of pain in a Volvo Church, why dummies like me get to be crash tested every other week or so!
Jack,
You wrote: "There is plenty of pain in a Volvo Church, why dummies like me get to be crash tested every other week or so!"
I can't say I've ever thought of going to church in those terms. Still, if some of the comments posted on this site are any indication, the crash testing continues in many places. If anything shows us our need to live in the presence of the Holy Spirit, to come under His control, that tells the story. I used to go to church fearing the criticism that I risked from certain individuals. I feared the insinuations of unbelief that would come from Brother Thiks He Does Everything Right if I disagreed with him at the Church Board meeting, what Sister Strict Obedience might gossip to others if she saw me in shopping for an intimate birthday gift for my wife, or if Mr. What-Ellen-Said-and-You-Better-Be-Doing would corner me for instruction because of how he saw me playing with my children on Sabbath. So I praise God that He has freed me from such situations and given me a church where I can be nurtured and grow in His love, where my wounds will be soothed by my fellow believers who know how to minister God's mercy, where I can receive wisdom from the experience of others who have faced similar struggles. I wish greatly that others could enjoy such a great blessing.
William
I agree although I feel you are taking a cheap shot at conservatives. That A lot of Judgementalism from someone who claims to be filled with Holy Spirit. A log removal procedure might be in order
before thou goest labeliing people. Sometimes those of a liberal persuasion play the victim card to label those with whom they disagree
Anyone who has held responsible leadership positions in an SDA church for as long as I did (over 20 years) can understand the analogy to a crash dummy. You become a lightning rod for whatever people dislike about what is or is not happening. And in many cases you know the reasons but ethically you cannot divulge them. Furthermore I can testify that the ability of those whom you serve to inflict pain is not correlated with where they are on the theological spectrum, although there does tend to be more willingness to inflict pain as you approach the extremes.
There is a theory that your ability to be a successful leader of people is strongly correlated with your ability to tolerate pain. People with leadership ability who cannot tolerate pain will usually react in one of two ways – they will become insensitive to those around them as a defense mechanism or they will simply go off and do their own thing (perhaps with a few others who agree with them). In either case they will tend to accumulate serious anger issues. I know many current and former SDA pastors who struggle with unresolved anger from their (few or many) years in ministry. Unfortunately they often take it out on their families because they have nowhere else to vent.
One thing that I have learned from my life experiences is that we can safely take our pain to Jesus. He does not get angry even when we holler at Him. I well remember the time when a fellow elder was sent to talk to me about a situation where I was experiencing considerable pain. I told her I could not talk about it. I could not tell her that I could not talk about it because anything I said would hurt some of the very people who had sent her to talk to me (they were the source of the pain). She said that when one is hurting one needs to be able to talk to someone. I replied that I was talking to Jesus at that very moment. She said I needed to talk to someone with skin. I replied that Jesus has skin.
It is preceisely because Jesus took on human skin that He became a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. Surely He has borne our grief and carried our sorrows!
I agree with Jack the the church should not be a house of pain. But when we accept those who are suffering from the scars of sin, and love them as ourselves, we become vulnerable to their pain.
Jack
I feel you are trying to pull a fast one on us. This is backtracking rather than elaboration. You have been called out on your fallacy now you are trying to do as if you never actually meant what you wrote. If you do not mean waht you wrote, what was the point of the article besides taking a swing at adventists doctrines? You say the church should be painful for liars, how about homosexuals? Is homosexual practice less sinful than lying.
I aslo take exxception to the notion that you want to dictate which set of people should get hurt and which should not. No one here was coerced to join this church but all did so voluntarily and as such you cannot complain about things or standards being imposed on you when you joined the church when those standards were put in place long before anyone here joined. Jack you wilfully joined a church that believes in a six day creation, you wilfully joined a church that does not ordain women, you joined a church founded on 2300 day prophecy and you joined a world church not a congragational one so deal with it! We are adventists and most of us are not ashamed to be called thus. Our mandate is to follow Jesus, not ambient culture or cheap humanistic moral ideologies.
Yes. Admitting you are homosexual is less sinful than lying that you aren't. Lying that because you are male you are entitled to leadership and ordination, is worse than telling the truth that you are happier with people of your gender than with others. I joined a church that taught me to follow Jesus, not male chauvanism. Who attracted prostitutes more than the religious right. It taught me to not eat the favorite food of the majority. Not to accept the favorite day of the majority for worship. It taught me to be truthful about the age of the earth, as true as the needle is to the pole, and to stand for the right though the heavens fall. I wasn't joining a club of people I agreed with, I was joining a movement quick to reform, adapt, and change as they follow the Lamb withersoever he goeth.
PS. (William, I did't mean I get crashed every time I attend my church, my local congregation is very kind and supportive and safe. I mean I get "crash tested" when I am bold of foolish enough to offer new ideas for Adventism on this blog!)
Wear your scars with pride, Jack. Being the target of intellectual lightening strokes (and some not so intellectual) is evidence of an adventurous, creative mind. Oh, and I believe a see a little slash that I inflicted. You are resilient, and I admire that.
Let's be a bit careful about how we define "hurt." With due respect to the reality that any blogger who advances his ideas probably needs to brace himself for a pummeling – as well as lots of warm affirmation – we need to realize that attacking or criticizing an idea is quite different from attacking or hurting people. The ability to separate oneself from one's ideas is the only way to avoid personalizing disagreement. But that capacity is essential to robust, honest exchange of ideas about things that personally matter to us very much.
Some people aren't very good at that. I remember after I first got married that I used to get in discussions – usually over religion – with my very conservative father-in-law (I was very infatuated with religious existentialism in the late 60's-early 70's). He would shortly get very red-faced and angry, and the more angry he got, the calmer I got. My wife remonstrated with me. "Nathan," she said, "when you put your ideas out on the table, they aren't part of you; it's just what you think. You don't care if people slice and dice your ideas, or kick them off the table. It's kind of a game for you. But when my dad puts an idea on the table, he's putting his heart out there. And when you get out your scalpel to logically dissect what he says, you're cutting on his heart, because he is what he thinks and believes. So please remember that when you get into discussions with him."
To utilize the analogy of the blog, I don't think that what goes on here at this website has much of anything to do with producing safe Volvos. Producing safe Volvos requires intimate, hands-on knowledge of how the vehicle reacts to given stimuli in a variety of situations. On this website, we do the equivalent of discussing and arguing over what should be in the owner's manual. Anyone who is likely to get hurt in that process probably shouldn't participate.