The Real Story about Video: “Adventist Joins the Pope’s Agenda”
by Monte Sahlin
By AT News Team, April 30, 2014
A video is being circulated on YouTube by an independent ministry that accuses a Seventh-day Adventist church in California of joining the ecumenical agenda of Pope Francis because a Catholic priest preached in the church. To discover the facts behind this sensational story, Adventist Today contacted Pastor Dan Appel at the Auburn Seventh-day Adventist Church in the Northern California Conference.
Auburn, like most communities in the United States, has an interdenominational group of pastors from local congregations that meets from time to time. Appel attends the meetings as recommended by the denomination’s General Conference (GC) Ministerial Association. Participation in such groups by Adventist ministers serves to deal with misinformation that is widely known to other faiths, as well as have opportunities to share Adventist beliefs.
A survey in 2010 showed that 24 percent of Adventist churches in the United States had participated in inter-faith events during the prior year. The survey was conducted for the denomination’s North American Division by the Institute of Church Ministry at Andrews University.
“I am trying to place the Adventist Church in the best light possible and build friendships for eternity,” Appel told Adventist Today. In recent years he has been invited to preach at a Methodist church and a Lutheran church as a result of his participation in the group.
For many years the pastors have organized a Lenten Series of mid-week meetings for about six weeks on Wednesday evening, rotating among the various churches. The rule is that no minister preaches in his or her own church during the series, so when Appel was asked to be part of the series this year, he was assigned to preach on the evening the group was at Saint Teresa’s Catholic Church and the associate pastor from Saint Teresa’s was asked to preach on the evening that the group was hosted by the Adventist Church.
Appel took the request to his elders and the church board. Both groups unanimously voted to go ahead with the opportunity. On the night that the Adventist Church hosted the series, the church was full and three out of four of the people present were from other denominations.
An unidentified Adventist from an independent ministry came from out of town and made a video recording of the event. A few sound bytes have been edited out of context and mixed with an unconfirmed statement attributed by the producer to the “Church Manual.”
The attack videos and rumors have stirred up a negative reaction around the world. “I’ve received hate mail from South Africa, New Zealand and all over the place,” Appel told Adventist Today. “I’ve been ripped to shreds for two or three weeks. Some of these people are rabid.”
To make matters worse, his conference officers just happen to face a routine constituency session in two weeks. A leader of Adventist Singles wrote to the conference president asking him to discipline Appel or “he’d have all 10,000 members of [the singles organization] attend the … meeting and vote him out of office,” the pastor told Adventist Today.
“I’m proud to be part of a church that tries to introduce people to the Sabbath, to the Lord of the Sabbath,” Appel said. “My goal for 40 years [in the ministry] has been that if someone wanted to persecute me, they will have a horrible time doing it because they will say, ‘This guy loves people and loves Jesus; why would I want to persecute him?” Appel never expected his persecutors to be fellow Adventists.
“People all the way up to the GC have been pressuring to have me fired,” Appel said. “Some have sent threatening letters to the GC, union conference and conference … just rabid attacks.”
To further encourage misunderstanding of the situation, when Appel completed his undergraduate major in theology at Pacific Union College many decades ago, he still had two or three required courses to complete before he could graduate and decided to take them at a Catholic university in his home town. Some have labeled him a “Jesuit plant.”
“My passion is not attacking Catholics,” he admits. “I am passionate that Adventists be known for what we are for rather than what we are against. We are known for being against all churches other than our own, against alcohol and pork, against Sunday instead of for the Sabbath. You rarely impact people in a positive way when you punch them in their spiritual noses, then expect them to listen to what we have to say.”
He wrote A Bridge Across Time, published by the Review & Herald in 2001, to provide a positive witnessing tool about the Sabbath. He has made friends with clergy from a number of other Christian denominations over the years. He remembers that while he was a pastor in Georgia some years ago, during a difficult time in his life, the Presbyterian and Methodist ministers and the Catholic priest in the town were particularly kind to him.
Appel did his homework. “Ellen White hasn’t written anything against Lent,” he told Adventist Today. It was first mentioned by Irenaeus in early Christian literature. “He died in 202” and wrote that Lent was a “long-standing” practice among Christians, so “to be long-standing in 202 it had to go way back.”
“The time has come for us to stop being known as the people who hate Catholics,” Appel said. “We should be known as people who love others more than anybody. When our message comes across a bridge of love and respect, people hear it. A relationship of love and respect gives us the right to disagree with them.”
He also refuses to say anything bad about his critics. “Their hearts are in the right place. They are sincere,” he stated.
During my years of community ministry some of the best progress was the result of work from people who were willing to reach across the lines that so often divide faiths and work together. None of us surrendered an inch of our beliefs. Rather, we built friendships and learned to understand and respect each other better. So I think the criticism of Pastor Appel is an unfortunate reminder that some people are still among us who profess to be followers of God while their actions display a very different character.
Unfortunately, there are still many Adventists who believe that unless we believe and practice that Roman Catholics are the declared enemy of Adventism and the Jesuits infiltrate congregations, even the ministry. The anti-Catholic sentiment that was prevalent in the U.S. when EGW wrote her "prophetic" missiles (sp. intended), that sentiment was taught and is still prevalent in many areas. It will continue as long as the independent ministries continue to preach such messages of hatred and fear.
Pastor Appel is deserving of our highest respect, support, and admiration. But he is wrong in his gracious assessment of the inside-the-walled-in-compound Seventh-day Adventists who are attacking him. Their hearts are not in the right place. These ignorant people are not sincere. They are addicted to the feelings of pride, self-righteousness, and self-exaltation like a pothead is addicted to dope. The pleasurable feelings these sick people enjoy as a result of attacking other people are narcotic. I know these people very well. They have never accomplished anything in life. They are nobodies in the outside world. Accordingly, they will not allow anyone to deprive them of their warped emotional feelings that their agitation generates. No one can reason with them. They are wilfully unteachable and unrepentant. Let them be. Let them wallow in their own ignorance. Encourage their children to attend an SDA college or university.
Thank you for posting this story.
PB "Their hearts are not in the right place. These ignorant people are not sincere. They are addicted to the feelings of pride, self-righteousness, and self-exaltation like a pothead is addicted to dope."
Totally judgmental and not worthy of publication. I'm disappointed the AToday allows such demeaning statements. This is not a comment on the actions described in the article. Doesn't it violate the rule about denigration?
Maranatha
Several weeks ago I expressed my position in a comment to the Spectrum Blog post–Death of a Branch Davidian Friend and Other Memories–as follows:
"Waco changed everything. No longer can we weakly smile at, slowly walk away from, or otherwise patronize inside-the-walled-in-compound Seventh-day Adventists.
I cannot reason with these ignorant, bewildered, and paranoid individuals. I have tried my best. They are unteachable. And their self-righteous defiance is shocking even to my thick-skinned sensibilities. I have learned to adopt a ruthless approach similar to what psychologists would recommend for one's confrontation with a child molester.
It would have been very easy for me to become an inside-the-walled-in-compound Seventh-day Adventist. But my parents sacrificed and sent me to Andrews Academy and Andrews University, exemplars of our institutions of higher learning without which there would be no differentiation between David Koresh's insular religious community and the Seventh-day Adventist Church."
I agree Phillip, I've had a lot of dealings with the right wind, independent SDA types, and though I had some theological agreements with them, I found myself out of harmony with most of their drivel. Yes, self righteousness, ignorance, and hate are their calling cards! And if you prove to them, and even do it with the words of EGW, that they are wrong on a point, they will look at you with this smug look and then say, and it is almost a common script line, "Your spiritually blind" and ignore what you said. They are like Luthers fanatic friends that he said Lucifer would send as a plague to the church.
There are still many who are pandering to Adventists ignorance who are so concentrated on the "remnant" status that they cannot cease to beat the drums against any association with non-SdAs.
Elaine your comments here are not helpful and only furthering the conspiracy mindset of conservative Adventists. You are playing into their hands by purportedly turning the matter into an either/or question, as if Pastor Appel's actions somehow contradict traditional Adventist views on the "remnant."
Whether that theological position on the "remnant" is true or not – it isn't the issue.
Try as you may to see it otherwise, the Seventh-day Adventist theological position on the 'remnant' is the only issue being addressed here, no matter what else seems to be on the table. It is important to take note that the General Conference explicitly avoids official membership in anything that can possibly be considered ecumenical at the level of a denomination, rather than at the personal level. This has been its position since its founding.
This video and the conversation here is in total explained by the denomination's continuing support of the historical claim that Seventh-day Adventists are divinely identified by Revelation 12:17 and thus designated as the last and final church that will reveal to the world by the marterdom of its members that God's law can be kept by mere humans, and thus the church will put the lie to Snake's charge that God is demanding and arbitrary rather than loving.
More to the point, many believe that Ellen White taught unconditionally that the War in Heven of Revelation 12, will have as it counterpart on earth a war between Roman Catholics and Seventh-day Adventists, members against members to the death. And that only those who undestand and hold to the law as explained by Seventh-day Adventists will receive eternal life.
This video and the alarming response it is drawing can only be addrssed by addressing the fundamental beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists.
Bill,
I disagree. I believe such criticism comes from people who do not know the power of the Holy Spirit in their lives, so they are filled with fear and seeing dangers at every turn. The Holy Spirit drives-out all fear. He gives us the confidence to make friends in other faiths knowing that the power of God in us is far greater than any power of sin in them. If the power of God is in us, what reason do we have to fear?
Why do we think Catholic Jesuits are infiltrating our SDA Church, and will somehow corrupt us but then get worries when we go into their territory? If we have "the truth" (or "most truth") then shouldn't they be scared to come to us, and wouldn't we be fearless about mixing with them? If our message is so weak it won't hold up to scrutiny, then it really isn't the true message is it?
By analogy, when JVs knock on my door, I don't hide – I invite them in. Why? Because I am confident they will not convert me or undermine my faith, but that instead I will probably challenge theirs!
I'm not the least bit concerned about Jesuits invading the Adventist Church because Satan has already done a pretty good job of that.
I do the same thing with JWs, one thing I like to point out to them is that I will never agree to let their leadership dictate to me what I should believe, and take away my right to investigate truth on my own. Their doctrine forbids self investigation or conclusions, only the Watch Tower can decide what is truth. I point out to them that is no different then the Roman Papacy they hate so much. Also their founder was a high degree Mason and is buried in a pyramid covered with occult symbols up in Indiana. They usually look amazed and can't believe it.
Catholic baiting is alive and rearing its ugly head,by the nut cases who have nothing better to do in the church than twist everything they can get their hands on into some kind of convoluted conspiracy with Catholocism. They been scanning the horizon for over a century for signs of the much dreaded Sunday laws, and they are impatient that it hasn't happened, so they have to make up stuff like this to keep the hype from dieing down.
It's gettting a little old. A search of American history back in the 1880's when EGW wrote The Great Controversy, reveals that there was a move in Congress to legislate a Sunday law way back then. It was called the Blair Amendment. It failed. Adventists were in the forefront of opposition to it. Back then Protestents of almost all persuasions were very anti-Catholic, but many of them nonetheless supported the Sunday law. So my question is, doesn't it seem like EGW writing on the Sunday laws were less a prophetic prediciton for the future and more of a contemporary comentary of what was going on in the political and religious world at the time she wrote them?
By the way, Ellen White also strongly believed that Adventist should align themselves with the Women's Christian Temperence League on temperence issues even though the WCTL was in favor of the Sunday law amendment. She even went so far as to encourage that members of the WCTL be invited to speak at our campmeetings on temperence issues. sShe hoped by such association with Adventists we might be able to expose them to truths about the Sabbath.
So there is a precidence is associating or building bridges with other religions on issues where there is common ground. This is not" reaching across the abyss" to form an alliance with papal power as propaganda peddlers in the church insist.
'She even went so far as to encourage that members of the WCTL be invited to speak at our campmeetings on temperence issues.'
Was she disciplined like Pastor Appel for such a blatantly ecumenical suggestion?
I have a question along these lines. SDAs also teach that the USA is the Second Beast of prophecy. Does that mean I should hate Americans (i.e. most of you)? Should I also hate the current American Government, and its agents and officers (i.e. its soldiers, it politicians, its public servants, its judges, it companies etc)? If the answer is no, then why do we have a totally different mindset to Catholics?
Steve,
Actually I have talked to people in Europe who actually fit this description during the Bush years. I wonder what they would say now.
While the Adventist Today reporter worked to be fair and accurate in his reporting, there are a couple of items that need clarification.
First of all, in paragraph 11 it is stated that "“People all the way up to the GC have been pressuring to have me fired." It would be more accurate for it to have read "people have been pressuring leadership all the way to the General Conference leadership in efforts to have me fired." I am not aware, one way or the other, whether or not anyone at the General Conference level has chosen to act on those requests.
Second, my Conference leadership had no advance notice of our participation in this series of community events or the planning committee's decision, with our concurrance and support, to invite the pastor/priest they did to speak. It was our decision and they do not deserve the excoriation they have received because of our decision. To use our action to threaten them is hitting far below the belt! The emails and phone calls they have received from, literally around the world, condemning our action, and the vitriol that characterized them are both shocking and disappointing to say the least!
Finally, I would like to plead with those who do not understand their attitudes or actions, as well as those who feel that one religious organization or another are a threat – religious or otherwise to try to live out Jesus' challenge to us to "love your enemies! Do good to those who hate you. Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who hurt you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, offer the other cheek also. If someone demands your coat, offer your shirt also. Give to anyone who asks; and when things are taken away from you, don’t try to get them back. Do to others as you would like them to do to you." Luke 6:27-31 (NLT) Or Paul's admonition in Romans 12 to " Don’t just pretend to love others. Really love them . . . Love each other with genuine affection, and take delight in honoring each other . . . Bless those who persecute you. Don’t curse them; pray that God will bless them . . . And don’t think you know it all! Never pay back evil with more evil. Do things in such a way that everyone can see you are honorable. Do all that you can to live in peace with everyone. Dear friends, never take revenge. Leave that to the righteous anger of God. For the Scriptures say, “I will take revenge; I will pay them back,” says the LORD. Instead, “If your enemies are hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals of shame on their heads. Don’t let evil conquer you, but conquer evil by doing good.
If we would all live our lives that way, what a difference we could make in our world, and in our Adventist world.
It would be interesting to know what part of the world most of these complaints came from and what that would tell us.
Moose,
Amen! How can we hope to actually love others if we don't even know them?
Most Adventists need to get to know their neighbors anyway, not hide from them! As for other Christians, everyone who professes to love Jesus is my brother or sister. EGW said that most of the sincere Christians were still in other denominations and most SDAs would betray the truth. Now that is all something to seriously think about. Just because someone is not an Adventist does not make them an enemy, remember that. Catholics in general are great people, but Jesuits you had better keep an eye on, and their lay foot soldiers, the Kinghts of Columbus. These are bad dudes with a real agenda. My ex-father in law is a KOC and infiltrated SDAism back in 70 and has been promoting Catholic theology and those in the church who stupidly do so. When I was at SMC years ago we had two young Jesuits there, one is a high up GC person now. But this is what Jesuits have historically done, fact. They are the counter-reformation and do that you need to infiltrate and work to slowly but surely spread your sort of thinking, to influence change to bring your opponents over to your side.
As for Pastor Dan, good for him, I think he is being a fine example of a real Christian!
I would like to add my voice in support of my friend Dan and what his church is doing to build community with others who love Jesus. About 25 years ago when I was serving as a SDA pastor in N. County San Diego we joined with a Baptist and a Luthern congregation and rented a large glass front office building in Carlsbad CA. It was called the Community Christian Center. We all had offices upstairs and on Sunday it was like a multi-plex theatre with different auditoriums for the two congregataions meeting on that day. On Sabbath we had the entire facility to ourselves. The Baptists and the Adventists both learned a lot from our Luthern brothers and sisters by celebrating Holy Week together. In our denominational boxes it is easy for any of us to forget that we only play an instrument in God's Orchestra, even if it is an important sound that is needed. We are not the entire thing. I am regularly encouraged to witness the dedication and loyalty of other brothers and sisters in Christ who are in other churches and that includes the Catholic church as well. Anyone want to throw stones at Mother Teresa?
I find it a liitle odd that no one has yet focused attention on why a significant number of Adventists in the 21st Century in America hold highly negative views about another Christian body, the Roman Catholic Church. We need to go no further than a book which the current GC administration is promoting written by the one of the founders of our denomination. One has only to read certain chapters of Ellen G. White;s Great Controversy volume (both editions) to understand where many Adventists obtain their negative views concerning the Roman Catholic Church. In the 19th century, the views she advanced were quite widespread among Protestants. However, most other Protestants bodies in the 20th Century outgrew that bias. But not our denomination. We continue to hold to a view of prophetic interpreation based on dubious arguments that still holds to the view that "in the end" our paranoia about that faith tradition will come to pass. I suspose that it will take several more generations before we mature to the point that this view can be placed along side other doctrinal beliefs which we have abandoned.
I was an aquaintance of Dan's from a neighboring SDA church when he was a pastor some 35+ yrs. ago in Georgia. He has always been a pleasant kind Christian gentleman.
To suggest a pastor that has been in the pulpit for 35+ yrs. is a "jesuit infiltrator" is absolutely nuts. Only someone who bought in to the majority of SDA thought could have remained in the SDA church without a complete mental breakdown…even they have difficulty maintaining sanity with the "nuts" among the "friends."
Regards Dan though I havent seen you in about 35 yrs.
Pat Travis
Orlando
As Christians we worship and have our allegiance in Jesus Christ, "ONE GOD". As Christians we should unite in our efforts to bring the masses to His grace. It appears we all have a piece of the TRUTH, the most important being that Jesus Christ came to Earth in human flesh, is our singular role model, paid the penalty for every living soul's sin, thereby reconciling us to the GODHEAD, and to each other. In Christ we are united, as we should be here on Earth. There will never be a global Sunday Law for worshipping GOD. Two thirds of Humanity are not following the Christian Theme, although most in the world believe in a god or god's, our GOD. Our enemy is in "HIGH PLACES". The Corrupt global govt's, the greedy global Bankers, the monolithic Industrial Tech enterprises, the Mighty Armies that stain the Earth with blood. AWAKE, LOOK UP, your SALVATION IS NIGH. Even so, Come, LORD JESUS.
Ummm Earl, you named all of the culprits mentioned in revelation except for the woman riding on the beast. From reading you and Ervin I have to assume that you would like to take that part and throw it in the theological scrap heap of former SDA beliefs. In revelation the money powers, governments, and armies are all in league with the religious power, as it has always been down through history. And authoritative government loves religion that keeps the people in ignorance and obedient.
By the way, who is that religious power? Most Catholics are appalled by the actions of their church in the past and only down in the deep under belly of the papacy do they still conspire to rule over the kings of the earth again. Most liberals and historians who do not worship the papacy know this out there, but it seems that we are forgetting or listening to too much propaganda?
This is an amazing story. I cant't help but remember when George Vandeman's little book What I Like About… came out in 1986. He shared what he liked about Lutherns, Baptists, Methodists, Charismatics, Catholics and Judaism. I was pastoring with Lonnie Melashenko in the Paradise, CA church at the time. We had pastors of all these churches come and preach at the Paradise church on various Sabbaths to affirm them. It was a great way to build community. I applaud my friend Dan in his reaching out and joining other denominations in this great Christian experience of Lent. Just remember what church leaders said back at the time when our church leaders had discussions with protestent leaders about Adventist beliefs and we were embraced as fellow Christians. When our leaders were asked about some views from some Adventists which seemed to contradict what they had been hearing in the discussions, it was said that all organizations have their "lunatic fringe". Well the lunatic fringe is still alive and well.
The "lunatic fringe" back in the 50s and 60s were well respected Adventist theologians like Andreason, who was threatened, along with others, if they did not abandon their beliefs on the Sanctuary and it's cleansing, a doctrine which Barnhouse and Martine found insufferable. Let's not get into that bit of history, I'm too well aquaintted with it. I had the privilege of serving with Pastor Robert Wieland in the 70s in San Diego and we had some very interesting talks about those day. Also with one of my theology teachers at Southern, Frank Holbrook, who was told to recant what he believed or loose his position and retirement. The man was sent around the area churches to recant, all the time looking ashamed of himself, it was pathetic! I might not agree with all of what these men believed, but mostly they were very sound in their basic doctrines and the force and threats used against any who did not tickle the fancy of the evangelical movement's men is shameful.
We have a lot in common with most Christians, but the leaders of the Evangelical church today, especially those in the mega churches and those who promote the union of church and state, now there are our enemies and I have found that in the liberal churches we have real allies when it comes to this.
One other point, those who took up the "banner of historic Adventism" back in the 60s and later on to this day, were unfitting representatives of it. Brinsmead allied with an Anglican Jesuit and tried to introduce the doctrine of original sin into Adventism, and so this has continued, belief now in this relic of the papacy. It has undermined our understanding of the gospel, a gospel that has been twisted into something not much better then the indulgences of yesteryear, and Calvinism at its worst. Today's historic and traditionist adventists are just the fanatics of the Reformation days. Its quite a mess out there!
At the root of this is the arrogance and pride that this is the "remnant church." That wouldn't be such a bad term if it meant responsibility, but to most it does not and should be rejected. Pride has always been the most noxious sin to God, and like the Laodicean church fits us like a glove.
God has His remnant in every church, even religion, who believe in and love His ways. There is no room for pride or hate for any "others." If we could just get over this and communicate with other faiths like this authentic pastor has done, then the Gospel could be taken seriously by the whole world. These persecutors are God's enemies like many of the first-century religious leaders.
"Pride has always been the most noxious sin to God, and like the Laodicean church fits us like a glove."
So says Ella with absolutely no backing. She can speak *only* for herself unless others have confided in her or she can cite a valid poll.
I find it disingenuous to ascribe to "us" certain unproven characteristics when referring to members of the SDA church.
Maranatha
Ella is right though, and EGW has said so too many times to miss. We are arrogant and full of ourselves. There is this site on the web called Leaving Adventism, and the articles on the culture of control and pride hit the mark squarely. EGW said it well when she said too many times over and over that God needs to clean house in His church and cleanse it. Like the temple in Jerusalem, we need the master to pass through and drive out the hypocrites and prideful [and money changers, thieves,]
I 'm sure that all reasonable individuals would hope that John Hughson is correct and we are dealing with "the lunatic fringe" of Adventism. However, I wonder. Based on what we know of the Adventist population in the areas within each of us which we live, what would be our estimates of the percentages of Adventists who belong to the "lunatic fringe" with regard to their attitude to the contemporary Roman Catholic faith tradition.? Are we talking about 1%, 5%, 10%, 25% or more?
There is a local (east coast) SdA church that has a GC Excutive as a member where I would bet 100%.
Actually Ervin, Steve Ferguson was on point. SDA interpretive doctrinal identification of the second beast of Revelation 13 is the USA. Now just because we are Americans doesn’t mean that for that reason those who are not American should rationally dislike us; or that they should hate our government or elected leaders because of prophetic interpretation.
Similarly, the members of the RCC faith tradition should not be regarded with disdain by Protestant Christians; but instead with love. That which Protestant Christians should be wary is the prophetic system that the RCC tradition represents, including the historical role it has unquestionably played; and the prophetic blasphemous papal role and title that obviously remain.
Thank you Stephen. Exactly I don't hate you American people despite what I was brought up believing about the prophetic future role of the USA. So why should it be any different with Catholic people.
And it works the other way too. If I complain about US foreign policy, about unauthorised drone strikes and NSA spying, you American realise I am not complaining about you but about the official American administration. And the clever ones amongst you might realise I might even like President Obama as a person, but dislike say the official US Government's inability to close Gitmo.
According to Youtube, tens of thousands have viewed this slanderous video.
Yep you got to be real careful not to make any comments that might be thought slanderous to Catholics although I say that the actions of Lance Black and the apology made to him shows the direction the mainstream is flowing…….Some feel no need for a Great Controversy between GoOD anD EVIL…..
http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-pasadena-leave-20140502,0,6625892.story#axzz30Y5vaBxm
I am so proud of Dan Appel for doing exactly what Jesus demonstrated in His own ministry, and what Ellen White recommends we do in relation to ministers of other denominations.
"Our ministers should seek to come near to the ministers of other denominations. Pray for and with these men, for whom Christ is interceding. A solemn responsibility is theirs. As Christ's messengers, we should manifest a deep, earnest interest in these shepherds of the flock." [Testimonies, vol. 6, p. 78. (1900); Ev 562]
Notice that she refers to them as "shepherds of the flock."
"The Lord calls for a converted ministry,–a ministry that will meet the people where they are, that will agree with them wherever they can, but that will not deny the truth. We are not to keep ourselves shut within the four walls, so that our light cannot come to others. There is common ground where we may meet those not of our faith, where we may agree in principles and in regard to the lessons of Christ. Few will become combative over these holy principles. Ms 104, 1898, p. 11. ("Christ's Manner of Teaching," n. d.)
Notice that we are to stand together with people of other faith traditions on the "common ground" we share with them.
"You may have opportunity to speak in other churches. In improving these opportunities, remember the words of the Saviour, "Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." Do not arouse the malignity of the enemy by making denunciatory speeches. Thus you will close doors against the entrance of truth. Clear-cut messages are to be borne. But guard against arousing antagonism. There are many souls to be saved. Restrain all harsh expressions. In word and deed be wise unto salvation, representing Christ to all with whom you come in contact. Let all see that your feet are shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace and good will to men. Wonderful are the results we shall see if we enter into the work imbued with the Spirit of Christ. Help will come in our necessity if we carry the work forward in righteousness, mercy, and love. Truth will triumph, and bear away the victory." {CCh 313.2}
Notice that we are to improve such opportunities, and to represent the character of Christ when we do so.
I have been practicing these principles, and more, throughout my 47 years in ministry. Yes, Buddhist monks, Catholic priests, Hindu Brahmins, Christian Scientists, Unitarian-Universalists, Baha'is, Jewish Rabbis, Muslim Mullahs, have shared the platform in my church building for community wide services. I have been one of several guest speakers for community wide Good Friday Services, Easter Sunrise Services, Christmas Holiday gatherings, and a host of others. I meet with, pray with, most of my fellow pastors (of other denominations) both individually and as a group, monthly, and have a monthly lunch with them. I am also, presently, President of the local Ventura Interfaith Ministerial Association.
Yes, there are several "detractors" in my Adventist community who think that this state of affairs is just awful. However, I refuse to allow them to deter me from my obedience to Biblical Principle. The Bible states clearly, repeatedly, that we are "one Body," that we are all (from whatever perspective) essential to that Body. If what I believe and preach is true, it belongs to all, whether they join my congregation or not. One does not need to be an SDA in order to believe in and practice Biblical principle.
So, DAN — hang in there, my brother; those miscreants persecuted the prophets before; don'e be surprised if they pillory you, too. It is more important to follow Christ than to be cowed by these who have no clue what it means to reflect the character of Christ.
Blessings, brother!
I had been thinking of making a contribution in support of Dan Appel and when I opened the computer to write, I noticed the comment above by James Ayars. He has used all those quotes by Ellen White which I was going to use. So thank you very much, James, for reminding us that Ellen White would give her approval to what our Pastor Dan has done.
Some Adventists have been encouraged to spend a great deal of energy in concentrating on the errors and evils of certain organizations and other denominations. Their spirituality is almost measured by the intensity of their opposition to others. Ellen White's words are appropriate: "There should be no going out of the way to attack other denominations; for it only creates a combative spirit and closes ears and hearts to the entrance of the truth. We have our work to do, which is not to tear down but to build up. We are to repair the breach that has been made in the law of God. It is the nobler work to build up, to present the truth in its force and power and let it cut its way through prejudice and reveal error in contrast with truth. There is danger that our ministers will say too much against the Catholics and provoke against themselves the strongest prejudices of that church" (letter 39, 1887, quoted in Evangelism, p 574).
If you are reading this, Pastor Dan, please be of courage in the Lord. We appreciate what you have done through the years in endeavouring to present Christ and present truth in the most attractive manner possible. Wrapped in the love of Christ.
In light of further review of Stephen Ferguson's helpful comments, as well as personal reflection in general, let me modify my earlier comment about the video and conversation here about it. I noted that the issue at hand is in total explained by church teaching regarding the primacy of the Seventh-day Adventist church at the end of time, as being identified in Revelation 12.
In reflection, Stephen is right. There is more.
Issues do not live independent lives. Nor do we who observe and comments on them. While the issue here seems to be about what happened in a Seventh-day Adventist church with regard to Catholicism, by reason of a priest invited to present the sermond, there is another matter among those conversing here about this.
That matter is the matter of salvation. Jesus was sent to save the world. Sure that is each of us no matter how we see ourselves in the contest of the Seventh-day Adventist church.
And the measure of being a follower of Jesus is our love one for another, and surely not how sharply we can divide the word, or to which party or which church we subscribe.
I sense myself too easily offended by the video maker and those who attracted to it and in the viewing are overwhelmed by their fears and compelled by their determinations.
The challenge I'm facing is how to see myself with them and loving one another as a follower of Jesus.
Bill,
Your earlier comment was pretty clear. I basically disagree with it of course, especially your characterization of Ellen White’s 'teaching;' but it is pretty straightforward and unambiguous.
This post isn’t so clear to me. What about Steve Ferguson’s comments caused “reflection”? Please further elaborate on what you’re saying.
Well for me,"Moose" said it well with scripture quotes and all!. I guess not much is different from long ago, when there were those in God's church who were bent on killing the King of the Universe, and also accomplished it. I am sure Pastor Appel has profoundly different understandings of what is the Gospel and truth about God than do many of his fellow local Pastors/Reverends, but as an Ambasador for God is trying to find ways to show God is truely a loving, and saving God, who was even willing to die for His enemies. Many see God as partial, vengeful, eternally punishing, not to be trusted, and very parochial. Unfortunately some of these beliefs and attitudes creep into our own churches and our own belief system.I guess we each need the converting power of the HS daily if we are to keep our priorities straight as to what we should be pationate about.
As a colporteur for 25 years and the last 4 years working in Christian radio I have grown to love and appreciate the genuine Christian spirit of non-Adventists. My daughter tours around the world preaching and singing in non-SDA churches and it never fails on Sundays to be welcomed so lovingly and respectfully by their members. One time a greeter, when I asked him how he was doing, he replied, "I am too blessed to be stressed." We need to recognize that the angels are currently holding back the winds of strife. When I mentioned to a conservative Adventist how genuine an experience in Christ these churches are experiencing his comment was, "Be careful, it is a false revival." At one of my daughter's speaking / singing engagements a gentleman asked, "Is she an Adventist?" When I mentioned affirmative he said let me call my wife who is an Adventist so she can hear this event in our church. He came back and I asked him what she said, and he said, "She's not coming, she said there is no way an Adventist would preach in a Sunday church."
We need to be investing our Christian love for a day when it's reserves will be called upon more than ever before. We love because we truly love, not because it is a ploy.
Does anybody know the name of this independent ministry? Maybe we are upset an an offshoot fringe group?
Glen,
I'm totally with you on this. There are many blessings to be gained and shared by being loving, including across denominational lines. Why is Christianity not growing as quickly as we imagine that it should be? Why are other churches growing faster than the Adventist church? Because we've lost sight of God's magnificent love and what it means to minister that love. If we claim to be followers of Jesus, doesn't it make sense that we should be celebrating His love together?
Glen —
It's truly amazing to me that an SDA would declare that "there is no way an Adventist would preach in a Sunday church." Where do these people come from? I served as Interim Pastor for a Sunday congregation for several months recently. They had two others who were so "bad" (they did not open the Scriptures at all!). They had invited me to speak on the birth of Christ through the Advent season. When it was done, they kept asking me back for the next six months while they searched for a new pastor. When they finally invited one, they asked me to mentor him for ministry (he was fresh out of seminary). He and I remain close friends and brothers to this day. It was truly a blessed experience — for all of us!
I love tearing down walls of separation — it is a most rewarding work! And I don't give up anything central to my faith in the process! When we preach Christ as He is revealed in Scripture, there is no room for argument or division. He Himself is our true "common ground." I have no doubt that when the day comes when all mankind will be forced to decide the nature of their loyalties to Him, there is at least one congregation which will know what they should do because of our contact together.
Let me add this experience, too. Whenever I have entered a new area to serve as a pastor, I have always tried to meet the other pastors in the area. I tell them that if they are ever in an emergency and need a substitute pastor to fill in for them on a Sunday, I'm usually free that day. Many have taken me up on it over the years.
Of course, Ellen White spoke to this issue, too: "It should ever be manifest that we are reformers, but not bigots. When our laborers enter a new field, they should seek to become acquainted with the pastors of the several churches in the place. Much has been lost by neglecting to do this. If our ministers show themselves friendly and sociable, and do not act as though they were ashamed of the message they bear, it will have an excellent effect, and may give these pastors and their congregations favorable impressions of the truth. At any rate, it is right to give them a chance to be kind and favorable if they will. Our laborers should be very careful not to give the impression that they are wolves stealing in to get the sheep, but should let the ministers understand their position and the object of their mission,to call the attention of the people to the precious truths of God's word. There are many of these which are dear to all Christians. Here is common ground, upon which we can meet people of other denominations; and in becoming acquainted with them, we should dwell mostly upon topics in which all feel an interest, and which will not lead directly and pointedly to the subjects of disagreement. {GW92}
At one time there appears to have been a general belief among Adventists that for the sake of the Lord's rapid return and to discharge our last-warning duty efficiently, Adventist proclamation should concentrate in proclaiming those Truths that are unique, different, or presumably unknown or unappreciated among the general Protestant population. In Gospel Workers, 92, Ellen White is urging those who proclaim the final Message to include strong elements of presentation on which all will agree. Yet a great deal of turbulence in our churches seems to hinge on the question of how to present the Message most effectively. Some advocate the "Straight Truth" which seems to be a kind of gospel elixir straight from the Adventist bottle, concentrated and even bitter to the taste of "the world," but good for them nonetheless and guaranteed to "wake them up." I don't doubt for a moment that a goodly number of souls have been won through the years via the "Straight Truth" approach to proclamation, and those who enter the church doors in this way undoubtedly believe that in turn they should present the "Straight Truth" to others.
But they also may become very critical of fellow members who believe in delivering less-concentrated dossages, laden with Truth acceptable to the majority of Christians. The Christian logician may question why it should be necessary to repeat these basic truths, when in fact to do so is to preach to the Christian choir. But the fact remains that adding to the "Straight Truth" those general gospel flavors known and loved by all Christians has a wonderful bonding effect as we develop discipling friendships with them. Some have told me that Christ does not expect us to "bond" with other Christians, only to warn them. And perhaps herein lies the conundrum. There is an element in our churches that sees emphasis on impending destruction, rather than the Law of Love as our primary message in the End Times, with little or no regard to relationships and binding together through the Truth. One such individual once told me that it is not our responsibility, as Adventists, to try to make disciples; we are simply to deliver the message, case closed, and he advocated dumping tons of leaflets from the air over large American cities as the quickest and most efficient way to discharge that responsibility. I asked him if it concerned him that not only would this present problems with the law, but would antagonize perhaps millions of people who otherwise might have been interested in the content of tracts that they came to regard as garbage from the sky. He said that how people respond to the gospel is not our responsibility, and that we should expect that most who hear or read the end-time message (if presented as Straight Truth) will in fact react negatively to it. This, he said, is par for the course.
And true to prediction, those who manage proclamation in this way are rewarded with exceedingly sparce fruitage, but often seem proud of the meagerness of their harvests. It's a permutation of Adventism that we need to try to comprehend, for those who practice this variant are stubbornly persuaded that theirs is the way Jesus would behave were he ministering among us today, and that rejection is the seal of godliness among gospel workers…. Within this context, our good Pastor Appel is a dangerous man who for the sake of popularity is willing to add spurious, pagan ingredients to the pure elixir of Truth. This accusation is one of the traditions of at least one element of neo-historic Adventism, and appears to be gaining a bit of a revival these days. It produces a great deal of controversy and even greater heartache to those caught in the crosshairs of this kind of judgmentalism….
As I've taken time to read about this story and then gone through so many posts concerning it, I just have one simple thing to say: "We need to all learn to be Christ like and to learn from His example in all we say and do in life and to stand strong together in Christ rather than to stand devided against Him."
Who standing together exactly?
I think you all have taken care of the response needed for this news item. I still remain a loyal employee of the SDA church while fully aware of the "fringe." But I must admit that I am surprised at the amount of hatred and judgment that Dan has received–and his conference. As the quotations have shown, the most conservative Adventist should be the strongest supporter of our pastors infiltrating other churches! I am sure glad that I have survived 41 years in ministry even though I was Youth Pastor for a liberal Baptist church while in the Seminary.
I'm just wondering if the '10,000 singles' might possibly storm the local SDA church in my area for renting the church to a large Catholics congregation for Sunday services. They've been excellent and generous tenants for many years.
I believe there are times all SDAs agree we should cooperate with other faith groups & individuals, i.e.: disasters, civic events or promoting religious liberty. Also, when general Christian faith or principles are involved, as in Christmas, temperance, etc., SDAs have often cordially participated without compromising our unique faith or our reputation as a Bible-based church.
To me, the core question now is how we view Lent. Its observance by Christians may predate the formal Roman Catholic organization. So does Sunday observance. Both celebrations were shared with early Christians by the predominate pagan world, then adapted to Christianity. As departures from the simplicity of the gospel, both became hallmarks of the oppressive church of the Middle Ages. Tho many Christians come closer to Christ during Lent (praise God, He honors all true faith…), it's clearly ensconced in man-made traditions instead of the Bible–which is why many Reformation-born churches rejected Lent, as well as Easter (per Wickipedia). While many of these faiths now increasingly abandon their Protestant roots, we're called to graciously continue God's loving call to "come out" from any belief system based on tradition instead of His Word–to "rekindle" the Reformation, borrowing from one SDA speaker.
Celebrating Lent, with or without the fellowship of other Christians, moves us in appearance & in fact farther from a Bible-based belief system & closer to tradition-based ones–which is inconsistent with the SDA mission & message. No matter how pure our intentions, we risk being understood as participating in the Ecumenical merge by both our fellow SDAs & other Christians. And, of course, sharing pulpits with Roman Catholic clergy heightens this perception.
Thanks for the (above) stories of positive dialog with other Christians. And thanks for the EGW advice for respectful relationships. I long & pray for that respect within the SDA family about this Auburn event & every other topic upon which we may differ. …And one word about the unkind personal attacks: I don't believe they represent most SDA conservatives, at least not the circles in which I associate–now there's fodder for discussion!
Dear InHisCharity,
Your perceptive and gracious comments always inspire me to think. At the same time, I think that you may be missing some important elements in what you said.
First of all, there is a very important principle that must underly all as we decide to do or not to do something. Something is right because it is right – whether or not anyone else does it; and it is wrong because it is wrong whether or not anyone else does or does not do it. Guilt by association either historically or currently puts us in some very awkward positions. For example, pipe organs were a purely pagan invention – designed to be played in Roman coliseums while Christians were eaten by lions (much like the old theatre organs were played during silent movies before "talkies" were invented.). Most Christians have no problem with their being played in church today. Much of the lituurgy in most very conservative Adventist churches is directly borrowed from various Protestant churches who in turn borrowed and./or adapted it from their Roman Catholic predecessors who borrowed or adapted much if not most of it from their Jewish or pagan forebears.
The same applies to guilt by association with where something may be played or by whom or with their morality or lack of it. Pianos have probably been played in many more bars and brothels than they ever have been in churches – yet we recognize their valuable use in church today. Much of the music played as offertories, recessionals and special musics was composed or performed by people with absolutely horrible morals. I could go on with limitless examples.
To go from the ridiculous to the sublime – Roman Catholic churches have pews. Because a Catholic Church has them, does that mean they should not be in our churches? (That is one reason many Greek and Russian Orthodox churches do not have them – that and the idea that one should never be seated in the presence of a king.) The use of stained glass in churches far pre-dates the Reformation yet almost all of our churches sport it in one way or another. Catechism classes far preceded our Sabbath School classes for children and the Baptismal classes held in most Adventist Schools to prepare children for baptism.
Martin Luther freely adapted the songs of the taverns of his day to create some of the most beloved hymns of the Church as did many 19th Century Christian song writers – ie O Solo Mio. There are those who would argue that Christmas was originally a pagan holiday adapted by Martin Luther to the life of the Church (it is speculated with some degree of accuracy that he is the first to bring an evergreen tree into the church – not for its pagan origins, but to signify the evergreen nature of Jesus. Ellen White even encourages its celebration – albeit adapted to our particular subculture. If such a thing is apropriate for Christmas, why not Easter or Lent – assuming that they have pagan origins adapted to Christianity (a fact debated for at least a couple of centuries in Christiandom.)
I could go on, but you get the idea. Because something is done or not done by anyone else or even because of its history does not make it good or bad. Something is good or bad because it is good or bad.
Even assuming that Lent has some kind of pagan association – although those who assert such a connection have a difficult time proving it. (Because two different people, organizations, etc. do the same thing does not necessarily guarantee one preceded the other any more than the fact that many pagan "church" leaders preached homilies mean that they preceded what one hears in church each week. ) Even though there are some similarities between pagan ceremonies and Lent does not necessarily connect them in any way. It is just as legitimate to assume that Lent in the Church grew out of the "Ten Days of Awe" between Rosh Hoshana (Jewish New Year) and Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) when many observant Jews clothed themselves in sackcloth and put ashes on their foreheads as they mourned their sins in preparation for the yearly judging they believed God did.
Finally, how much of everything done in even the most conservative churches is, to use your terminology, "a "man-made" tradition and how much of was directly delivered to us by God? Virtually everything done in our churches – Roman, Reformation, Adventist has a man-made origin as we developed ways and traditions of worship.
So, applying the above principles, maybe more Adventist Churches should seriously consider Lenten observances. It appears to be a very Adventist thing to do – us being in preparation for the anti-typical Day of Atonement.
By the way, I knew your folks – your mother was one of the most gracious and kind people I have ever met. You mirror her ways. Tell your brother hello for me.
Dan
I applaud the ecumenical efforts of Pastor Appel; I was once told that the Latin root of the word 'denomination' is the same as the root of the word 'division', and while I have not been able to confirm, I do believe that Satan is particularly pleased when we, as the body of Christ, divide ourselves into increasingly smaller and less effective groups of believers who are constantly more concerned with what we know, and what others are doing wrong.
Jesus said "…by this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another…", at what point do we stop trying to impress with our knowledge, and live what we have been preaching? Instead of uplifting and encouraging those around us who are taking the gospel message of Jesus to the world, we seem to be on a never ending witch hunt for someone to label as the anti-Christ. Distraction = deception, and I for one do not want to be one who considers myself the "…very elect…" who are deceived!
Christ's method alone, ministering to people as one who desires their greatest good; does that sound familiar anyone? I love the Seventh-Day Adventist church, but if the greatest argument against Christianity are those who profess to follow Jesus, couldn't the same be said about us?
Contrary to popular belief, conformity to worldly (pagan) customs and traditions by professed Christians (and worse still – Christianity as a whole) is without doubt a sign of spiritual decline and not one of progress. Lent is a pagan custom, among many others, that has been brought into the Church by man’s devising. It is the religion of Babylon, of which Tammuz the Babylonian ‘spring’ god is venerated and celebrated. This lies at the very heart of Sun Worship, Spiritualism and Babylonian religion and tradition. Being politically correct about Christmas, Easter and Lent in order not to offend other denominations and foster a cordial relationship with them certainly seems a more favourable position to hold; but the fact remains that in doing so one really cannot resist being pulled deeper and deeper into the euphoria and charisma of it all, until there is a gradual imperceptible departure from one’s own position of faith and doctrine. The Bible in Rev 18:1, 4 warns that “Babylon the great is fallen” and to “Come out of her, my people, that all of you be not partakers of her sins, and that all of you receive not of her plagues.” This is serious stuff. We (Protestants) should not clasp hands with pagan traditions that have crept into the Christian Church. This is not just about inter-faith/inter-denominational relations and unity in Christ. It is clearly a move towards ecumenism which is in keeping in line with recent calls by the Pope’s emissary, Bishop Tony Palmer, for unity in Christ and one who has also laid claim that the protest is over. [Col 2:20, 21, 22, 23; Ezek 8:13, 14, 15, 16; Rev 18:1, 4]
Trevor, i dare say perhaps every day of the year has an assoc. with some pagan idol or belief. We Christians when celebrating our God are doing just that, regardless if some pagan or mythical ritual just happened to occurr on the same anniversary. We honor our God every day of the year. If a pagan is doing the same that has nothing to do with us. If a SDA Christian is fearful of being contaminated by worshipping our Lord with Catholics or any other Christians, he needs to evaluate his faith. The Lord invites us to share our faith, in unity, in praising His Holiness. Don't put up barriers where Jesus commands us to share our faith.
Mr Calahan where in the Bible are we required to celebrate Lent, Easter or Christmas for that matter?
Trevor & Edwin. Lent, Christmas & Easter are the seasons of the year when the Christian world have for hundreds of years, held up Jesus Christ for the world to see. Its the anniversary dates shared by world Christianity. "Its a reality". We don't worship pagans on those days, We salute and honor "OUR GOD". The days of the week are also named after mythical gods. If you don't worship GOD on "any day" not named for a pagan god, you don't worship our GOD. What are you ashamed of, or afraid of?? Let your light shine for the Lord by worshipping GOD with thanksgiving and praise, with all other Christians. You will be blessed.