Spiritual Retreats for People Disengaged from Church to Start in January
by AT News Team
“More and more people describe themselves as ‘unaffiliated and unattached’ in terms of religion,” reflects Gregory Nelson, a life coach who once was senior pastor of the Collegeview Seventh-day Adventist Church on the campus of Union College in Lincoln, Nebraska. “Former Adventists I am meeting feel this way too.”
His conversations with many “who have disengaged from attending church but are still hungering for meaningful ways to develop and build their spiritual lives” has led him to announce a series of weekend retreats starting January 25-26, 2013. Each is limited to a group of 20 people and more information is available at https://gregorypnelson.com/Retreats.php.
“It’s a bit more tricky for them on a cultural level, since many of their connections from the past still remain, and they still love sharing the stories of Adventist life—even if only to laugh and smile about it,” Nelson told Adventist Today. “Like cultural Jews, there are definitely cultural Adventists, no longer embracing all the fundamental doctrines but still feeling warmth about their cultural connections.” And they are “trying to navigate their way through the vast plethora of options out there.”
Nelson explained that “these retreats will give them the space to evaluate and reflect upon what they feel they need to let go of considering where they’re at … and how to honor that in a respectful, healthy way, and then to consider how to innovate a faith and spiritual life that brings them to a place of greater wholeness, peace, joy, contentment and compassion for the world.”
The author of an outstanding book on the Sabbath—A Touch of Heaven: Finding New Meaning in Sabbath Rest published by Pacific Press in 1999—Nelson went from one of the largest congregations in the denomination to plant a new church among young professionals in Seattle. He now lives in San Francisco where he is part of a small house church.
If you know someone or are yourself “at a stage in your spirituality where you’re having a difficult time connecting to traditional church anymore, and yet you deeply hunger for a meaningful spiritual life that makes a contemporary difference,” then Nelson’s retreats may be what you need. He will offer a series of three retreats over the coming year in the Bay Area with three Webinars in between. He is also open to providing the same retreats in other places if there are 20 people willing to participate.
There may be those who, once leaving Adventism, still want to be part of a church. A quite common assumption that once a church member, they are hunting for a replacement. Yet, look at the many who are functioning just fine, in fact much better, developing their own spiritual journey. OTOH, some of us are so burned out that we prefer to experience a personal spiritual life devoid of ties to any church. But it sounds like a great idea for those looking for such a place.
Is a man who left his wife to marry a younger woman the person to lead out in such an endeavor? If he has repented of that grievous error I'm unaware of it.
"Can a former university pastor and church planter on the West Coast succeed in drawing 'disengaged and unattached' Adventists back into the mainstream?"
Greg and Shasta Nelson? Of Second Wind? MAINSTREAM????
This is journalism?? It's no wonder no one would affix their name to such a piece.
Greg Nelson, among others have found unique ways of ministering and good for them! T.S. and Chester – too many have attitudes of negativity, and casting judgemental words who leave a “holier than thou” after taste that has possibly chased off a good many people from the church. Then there is Elaine’s testimony that sparks of tolerance, acceptance, love, as well as adding a new thought.
Adventist World (Dec.) is beginning to address those who “have fallen by the way” in “Finding Them-Keeping Them” by Ben Schoun. Another article regarding doing a “Membership Audit and Membership Retention”. The reason mentioned for leaving was discouragement, being offended by someone but never any mention of people questioning the FB’s. I will be interested in the statistics as to how many members, how many leaving the church since 2005, especially in light of the recent stand on WO and persistant stand on the Gay Community.
My understanding at this point is that when a person writes to request names to be removed from the church books, the person is told, they don’t hold meetings very often to take care of this but when they get around to having a meeting, they assure that this will be done. Unusual – and unbusinesslike???
The article also said that with backsliders “organize our elders and deacons to visit them on a regular basis, redeeming them, because they have actually been LOST TWICE – once before coming to Christ, and once after joining His church.”…………………..
Are they missing the boat????
It is easy for liberals to cast others as judgmental when all one has done is point out what is obvious. That tactic is an outdated ploy. Accountability for past conduct is the issue. Judgment is with God and human beings have the right to evaluate situations.
I wonder what ever became of Mary. I know Rahab was in the linage of Christ
I hope Greg Nelson has found a key for making his concept work because a spiritual retreat for those who have disengaged from spiritual matters seems like an oxymoron.
William, I wonder if you are highlighting the difference between matters religious and matters spiritual? One tends to be externalised, the other internalised. The literal kingdom as opposed to the 'kingdom of heaven within you.' In my experience, the religious/externalised tends to crowd out, if not entirely obliterate, the spiritual/internalised.
I will be interested in hearing more about the results. Over the years I have seen large numbers of people leave the church, very few return and almost zero success from efforts to bring back the "disaffected" or whatever you want to label them. So I hope this effort breaks the mold and finds success.
While attracting the disaffected back is a noble desire, I think we should be putting our greatest effort into identifying and fixing the reasons why people become disaffected. My opinion is that there are many things in the way we practice our faith and the formalities of religion that prevent people from knowing God and which drive people away from God.
As I am reading the article and coments it amazes me, how thin skin we are as a people. We are in a spiriual battle some people are going to get their feeling hurt, so big deal get over it, I've had my feeling hurt at church, home, and got over it..Satan wants us to feel sorry for ourselves, How will we stand in the time of trouble?
I am a retired business man, if everytime I got my feeling hurt in busines and gave up I wouldn't have accomplish a thing. .
I completely agree. I have come to the opinion that those behaviors are often symptomatic of someone not having a personal relationship with God. A major contributor to this is the emphasis in our church on knowing facts about God but minimizing an actual relationship with God. This combines with the formalities we have adopted to prevent people from developing that essential relationship with God that will minimize or prevent the reasons for disaffection.
I believe accountability was mentioned here but seems to have been ignored. This question has came up often but nothing has ever been fixed that I am aware of. When this issue is fixed I think many would come back and support the church and it's out reach.
It's not judgemental as has been suggested or holier than thou. When things happen that should not and bring embarassment to the church from a whole city some do not even want to be seen in the parking lot. I have seen it happen. I had a house church for several years because of a situration like this to retain the members that left. Wnen a new preacher came some have cautiously returned and so have I. Some are gone for good. At the time it seemed the leadership could have cared less and may still be that way. In small cities bad news travels very quickly. Leadership needs to be very minful of what they do. I'm not sure this city will every get over what happened.
Steve,
We don't have to accept that people will become disenchanted and leave the church. Neither do we have to continue suffering from the hurts Satan has inflicted and wants us to remember so the church will be weakened. God is far more powerful and wants heal us, both individually and corporately.
You mentioned accountability. That is important. Another very important thing is conceptual ownership of the church. Is it someplace you attend? Or, are you the church?
There was a time when i was being drive out of the church because of a list of problems. I was not alone. Fortunately we got a new pastor who challenged us to plant a new congregation. The natural question was what geographic direction to focus our attention and we soon realized that enough of us lived in one direction that we could form at least the nucleus of a new congregation. I have no doubt that it was the process of planning, starting and nurturing a new church that kept me as a believer in God. Looking back I realize that our individual decisions to actually plant a new congregation was the point where each of us took conceptual ownership of the church. We no longer attended a church, we were the church. That spirit of ownership drove a time of study in which we examined everything we knew about "doing church." If it worked or contributed to spiritual growth, we kept it. If it didn't, we looked for replacements. The changes have been many. We are a primarily lay-led church with the confidence that if we lost our part-time pastor we might miss the person but not the role because each of us is an active part of the body of the church. Most of all we have a strong emphasis on connecting with the Holy Spirit for ministry and have seen a number of specific ministries develop. Overall it has been an amazing experience and such a blessing that I wish everyone could enjoy it. That is how God kept me in the church.
The move by Nelson is one in the right direction, at a time when the some percentage of our church is becoming too institutionalized and neglecting the love, the connection with parishioners in our congregation.
My heart breaks for all the people brought in and then the pastor is replaced by one who drives them off with others right along with them. Love is not present with some of the leaders.
I do want to point out there are good leaders. If you are blessed to have one then I pray you keep them as it seems they are rare.
I have learned I must keep my focus on Jesus.
Back to what is Greg going to attempt to bring former SDAS? Anyone have a suggestion?
He and Shasta were both Adventist pastors who committed adultery with one another, were then removed from Adventist ministry, divorced their spouses and married one another. They were interviewed about this by Julius Nam in 2007. This is not "inuendo." http://tinyurl.com/c442ct4
Read about his "retreats," and the amount he charges for them at the link provided: http://gregorypnelson.com/Retreats.php
This article says it is from the "AT News Team." It reads more like a recommendation than a news story.
Interesting. I would be interested to know if the At News Team knew this information or not before publishing this glowing endorsement of their ministry?
“Like cultural Jews, there are definitely cultural Adventists, no longer embracing all the fundamental doctrines but still feeling warmth about their cultural connections.”
Can there be cultural Adventists – an oxymoron? Is Adventism a pseudo-ethnicity or is it a religion based on certain beliefs and practices?
Is raises a very interesting question of what is a Seventh-day Adventist exactly?
Sorry not sure if I understand the comment. If you are suggesting people are being harsh for raising the issue of the sexual immortality of Gregory Nelson and his partner, I do get that point. But I also agree with some of the concerns of those who note the AT News teams glowing review of a ministry, where that ministers are ex-Ministers who were removed from ministry due to adultery, is also an important point.
No one is suggesting they personally should be condemned, but for people running ministries, they should be held to a higher standard. We all know this when we discussed Dr Pipim's fall, when the point was oft made that no one should condemn the man but he probably shouldn't be involved in certain ministries either.
No doubt some conservatives might feel, quite rightly, that there are double standards here? The NT calls us both not to judge (Matt 7:1), but also to judge (1 Cor 5:12; Matt 18:17).
Fair enough
Back to the article..I would like to say I have done work in trying to get people back in the church. It's hard to fix the reasons they left as there are different reasons for different people.Love is probably the biggest problem and including them in things they could do. Usually the powers that be do not want to let go. Every church has those in control and many times offend someone perhaps unintentally.
Again I will say leaders need to be very aware they are watched. It's a fact whether we like it or not.
Another point is many do not care so much about doctrine as they do friendship. If you poled all in any church on doctrine you would get much difference. Friendship is so important and I find it to be neglected in many churches. I know of people of other faiths who go to a different church just because they like the program better of the friendliness of the people.
Question..How do we fix these issues?
"Another point is many do not care so much about doctrine as they do friendship."
Yes, back to the article, I would wholly agree. I think I have made the point once before in another place, but to my mind, there are few people who 'read themselves out of the Church' as a matter of doctrine – some of our more informed ex-Adventist regular commentators excluded of course.
Our local Church has a special greeting team, comprising about 10-15 people. I don't believe the leader is even a board position, but the lovely guy who leads it probably does more to the growth and more importantly the retention of the Church than any other person – the paid ministers included.
Stephen,
Amen! Amen! and Amen!
I probably would not be in the church today if it were not for friendships. I praise God that the church I attend has embraced and actively promotes gift-based ministries. These ministries cannot be done alone and they all have an impact on the church family in one way or another. This has been particularly valuable for me because suffering from abuse as a child has made it very difficult for me to build friendships and trust others.
Just this past Sunday I needed help working on the greenhouse I am building and another church member came over to help for several hours. I really appreciated his help but what I appreciated most of all was how we shared and encouraged each other as we worked. We learned from each other. The highlight was when we were each standing five or six steps up on ladders to inspect our work and he asked if we could pray together before parting. To pray with my brother in Christ, to praise God and lift each other up to God while standing atop ladders both gave me new courage and deepened my love for him.
My ministry depends on the energies of others to resolve problems with their homes that people bring to us. It is satisfying to receive their thanks. Still, the greater blessing I receive is the warmth of fellowship that we enjoy while working together in the name of Jesus to help someone else. I can point to at least two people in our church who were actively disconnecting from the church before they accepted the invitation to help and the fellowship they found has renewed their bonds with both God and the church.
So I am hopeful the seminars described in the article are successful at building new bonds of friendship that can nurture the rebuilding of faith.
Adventism has always been based on the notion that 'my doctrine is truer than yours.' Now that this idea is succumbing to its weaknesses, it is reasonable and good that love for others is allowed to hold greater sway.
But, truth/doctrine/understanding has always been the soil in which the tree of one's life can grow and bear the fruit of love, joy and peace. Far from 'reading oneself out of the church,' the sincere seeker is led of the Spirit, via study, into deeper understandings of truth so that the fruit may be even more abundant. Quality of soil determines quality of one's spiritual experience. These seekers unite as one in the Church invisible and mystical, but as real as God Himself.
Wherever, and however, this process is allowed to happen, it will be blessed. William's concluding paragraph is spot-on.
Nothing is being "alleged." Their conduct is a matter of public record. I gave the link where Julius Nam interviewed them about this.
And as an AT writer noted when discussing Pipim, "For infidelity alone, denominational policy says, 'He/she must plan to devote his/her life to employment other than that of the gospel ministry, the teaching ministry, or denominational leadership.' (NAD Working Policy L 60 20, Steps in Discipline of Ministers with a Moral Fall)" (http://tinyurl.com/6tqxvg2).
Also, Pipim's victim was 20, not a minor, according to that same AT article.
How is it that some of the folks taking Chester, et. al. to task over questioning the leadership qualifications of a defrocked minister who indeed left his wife for a much younger woman, are the same folks who so recently strongly condemned one S. Pipim and the efforts of several leaders in Michigan to effect a rehabilitation? (Does the passage of time make the sin less sinful, the example less dangerous, the Bible, Ten Commandments, and SOP less pertinent?) Does the slant of A-Today journalism and many of the comments its articles generate mirror those of the secular world, which metes out it's condemnation or approbation based on the perceived conservative or liberal predilection of the subject under consideration? We would all better serve each other, the church, the erring, and our Lord were we to honestly search the Scriptures, rightly dividing the word of truth, etc., submitting our biases to be examined and corrected in the light of divine revelation, rather than using the Scriptures to undergird our preconceived and intransigent positions. On far too many issues the articles and comments on A-Today seem more characteristic of a polemical society, rather than of committed Christians seeking truth in the context of civil discourse. On a positive note: the articles do reveal many issues that challenge our church, and the comments do indicate the thinking of many who care enough to involve themselves in dealing with these issues.
"I'd expect a greater advocacy from you, and perhaps less certainty of indictment, esquire."
Ex 23:3. There is a difference between arguments of merit compared with procedural fairness-natural justice.
I do know a defrocked minister who ran off with another younger woman. He has now started a new ministry, with the support of the SDA Church (but in another location). I have remained friends with his wife – the woman left behind – who is not well-pleased that he has been able to re-start his ministry. My only point is that these situations are always muddier than they might otherwise appear on the surface.
I otherwise wholly accept the points made by the Moderator. I'll otherwise let others judge.
"An affair with a minor (Bill, she was not of age of consent in the country where this occurred)…"
Timo, I don't think that is factually correct. From AToday article 7 June 2012, "Pipim Sexual Abuse Victim: The Story from a First-person Observer":
'She was 20 years old at the time…'
The age of consent in Botswana is only 16-year old (much the same in most Western countries):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Africa#Botswana
http://www.ageofconsent.com/botswana.htm
On your other points, you are probably right as to your fears about who is the worst, because the answer is probably all of us. I also agree that what Dr Pipim did as a predator of young girls is probably in a whole other league of wrong, and again, it shouldn't be a contest over who is more of a sinner. But with the risk of raising all hell on my head, I do wonder if there is a slither of a point in what Chester and Bill are saying?
If the article did not read so much as an endorsing infotainment commercial, then perhaps the reaction by not a few would not have been so strong? The AT article says, "Nelson went from one of the largest congregations in the denomination to plant a new church among young professionals in Seattle." Obviously the reason why Mr Nelson went from one of the largest congregations to a new church, which as Bill points out is hardly a secret because Mr Nelson has given public interviews about it, is what I guess has caused such a reaction?
I am certainly not saying there is any bias in reporting – rather the very opposite. I am only pointing our how easy it is for perceptions of bias to arise, as distinct from actual bias, which I believe was much of the Moderator's point. Any notion that Mr Nelson is being given an easy ride because he is a liberal because certain background facts are not transparently stated, where there is a presumption that the same would not be extended to other conservative ministries (which again for the avoidance of doubt I would support AToday in denying), is no doubt the cause of concern.
"Sadly church history is replete with men who were defrocked on basis of mere innuendo."
Totally agree and good point. Of course it isn't a relevant point here, because in this case they openly stated:
Considering how personal and difficult this subject is, why did the two of you agree to this interview?
SHASTA: When we reconnected with each other and decided to get married, we pledged that we would not gloss over our past or try to hide it in any way. We believed then and still believe that our story is to be more a story about God than us – that God can look amazing against a backdrop of human crippledness, brokenness, and selfishness. That’s the story we want told.
GREG: In a nutshell, here’s the story: we were pastoral associates planting a church in downtown Seattle … we had an affair … in an attempt to put it behind us we confessed it to our spouses and to the conference president … we were then fired from SDA ministry."
Sorry the link: http://web.archive.org/web/20100418210635/http://reinventingsdawheel.blogspot.com/2007/05/rap-session-greg-and-shasta-nelson.html
I actually agree with Timo's comments above (despite statements about me) to the extent that I think what Mr Nelson did was probably in a totally different league of wrongness than what Dr Pipim did. That said, I do wonder how Mr Nelson's wife feels (the one left behind through the affair), and what she would feel of this article, which appears to be a glowing endorsement/advertisement of Mr Nelson's ministry? As I said above, my concern for Mrs Nelson is not bourne in ideology (given I would ideologically probably be in Mr Nelson's 'camp') but out of personal experience. Moreover, how do we decide when it is ok to pick up the stones then?
As a Christian, I have always been very confused and really struggled with the twin duties of not to judge others (Matt 7:1), but then to do exactly that – to judge others (1 Cor 5:12; Matt 18:17)! I can't be the only person confounded by this and the only person willing to admit that I have probably failed on occasion in staying silent when I should have spoken, and yet at other times been quick to judge when I should have stayed silent?
How then do we decide when it is appropriate to judge, whether it be Mr Pipim, Pastor Blasius Ruguri or President Wilson, or when not to judge in the case of Mr Nelson? This is not rhetorical but a genuine question.
P.S. Apologies for my contribution to this side show, which no doubt is a distraction from the very important issue of people feeling disconnected from a Church community, and how steps might be made to reconnect them.