by Carmen Holland

Filmmakers:
Daneen Akers and her husband Stephen Eyer are deep believers in the power of story telling. Daneen and Stephen,  grew up in the Seventh-day Adventist Church, attended SDA schools and both taught at Pacific Union College. And now they make documentaries.

The filmmakers of Seventh-Gay Adventists — the much anticipated film about love, sex, and eternal life have released a new teaser for their film. This is the second of several sneak peeks at some of the people featured in the film. Producer Daneen Akers states, "we'll eventually have different styles of teasers/trailers that will showcase different voices, styles, and tones."

She adds, "I love this one because it's simply the voices of several of the main film subjects sharing the core of the challenge, the difficult question of a seemingly dichotomous identity — I'm Adventist, and I'm gay. Do I have to choose between myself and my church?"

Click here to view the first teaser released four months ago. For more information on the SGA film, visit their website.

https://vimeo.com/21826395   Seventh-Gay Adventists – Teaser 2 from Stephen Eyer on Vimeo.

Comments


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 3rd, 2011 CherryAshlock says:

Find your wings and soar!

The clip was interesting. It is time for the church to really think about how welcoming it will be to all types of people. Jesus was inclusive even if he disagreed with peoples choices.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 3rd, 2011 Trevor Hammond says:

Can the producer, Daneen Akers, please furnish some credible Biblical evidence of God condoning or supporting homosexual behaviour/lifestyle/preference/choice/tendency/views/sex?


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 3rd, 2011 Philip Law says:

I am looking forward to seeing Seventhday Smoker Adventist, Seventhday Polygamous Adventist, Seventhday Spouse Cheater Advetntist, etc. etc. Why single out homsexuals for special treatment ? Adventist ministers have spoken against smoking, being unfaithful to one's spouse, etc., etc. Why not speak up for those groups?

Sensitivity, compassion, and love should be for all sinners including everyone of us. Asking special treatment for a particular group in itself often stirs up resentment.

Yes, there are those who consider mentioning homosexuals together with smokers, unfaithful spouses, etc., etc. as manifestation of judgemental spirit and intolerance. I wonder if that mindset in itself is a manifestation of judgemental spirit and intolerance.

It is undesirable to be homophobic but neither is it desirable to be heterophobic.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 4th, 2011 Hansen says:

The church has had smoking, fornicating, thieving Adventists for a long time. But most of them are ashamed or have sense enough to not expect a Christian community to affirm their behavior.

Gays, well, they are different.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 4th, 2011 AGG says:

A Grigorov

Yes, you are right gays are different.

First let me present a little bit. I would say by nature I don't like them.
In our church we have two man who are born homosexual. They are celibate
as far as I know, but very strange people (I don't want to say something more, but …)and I don't want to interact with them at all.

On the other hand one of the brothers of my wife is kind of gay (I wouldn't say I like him).

But some of my colleagues are also gay and they are nice and normal people.

So, isn't celibacy for such people too, too hard? It very easy to say, "You must live this way!" Let remember that one thing is to preach to somebody and totally different thing to tell the same to yourself and even more difficult to your children.

I know amazing amount of cases in which pastors change their view and principles when it is about their own children and relatives. I have seen pastor to disfelowship many people for relatively small reasons and later to forgive the adultery of his own son and even to defend him.

Let us wait to the time the child of some top pastor comes out and then we will see what is the real attitude of the our church.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 4th, 2011 markham says:

How obscene to attempt to legitimize sinful conduct. This type of material has no place on a website or magazine where an allegedly SDA Pastor is the editor.

Sinful conduct is construed as either approval or practice of homosexual liaisons and is condemned in Scripture.

Truth Seeker


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 4th, 2011 Elaine Nelson says:

There is equal condemnation of heterosexual "fornication." Are people who engage in this behavior ostracized and disfellowshipped from the church? Consistency? How is it known? Equally, how is homosexual behavior known?


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 4th, 2011 Seminarystudent1 says:

Seminary Student ,

Sin is always sin , all sin is separation from God and if we continue in that path we will be lost . This is what I know , at the same time we need to love these people . Let's remember that Jesus ate with sinners and cared for them . but when they were in the presence of God , they saw their sinfulness and change thier lives for example , the Woman brought to Jesus when she was in the act of adultery , she was not condemned by him but he tells her "go and sin no more " There is power in the gospel for deliverance from sin.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 4th, 2011 CherryAshlock says:

Find your wings and soar!

I am guessing being judgmental and telling someone to their face how much of an abomination they are is a sin…..if we all are sinners then maybe we should be loving and let God convict…..how can fellow sinners see Jesus in us if we have such an attitude


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 4th, 2011 Seminarystudent1 says:

Seminary Student,

Dear Cherry, The church needs to follow the example of Jesus, I don't call people sinners. But the Holy Spirit job is convict the world of sin and judgment . not sure if you have ever read the bible but when I read the bible , it brings conviction to my life and I have to make choices based on new light that God reveals to me.When I go to church  I hear God speaking to me and he convicts me to change things in my life , the same when I pray, sometimes he uses other people to tell me about things in my life , it is not always pleasant but at the end it will be . As I said before I don't call people sinners, but when I preach and the bible shows clearly that the path someone might be following, will lead him/her to death  Should I just keep silence and not say anything ? You have not understood the meaning of love , I love people too much to not tell them when they are going in the "road to hell " . As I said before there is power in the gospel to change people lives . Our job as leaders is to care for people and help them be ready to meet Jesus.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 5th, 2011 wfnoel says:

Markham,

What I find even more obscene is how so many people in our church (and this blog string) are quicker to condemn than redeem, typically because they obvioulsy either don't know what it is to be redeemed, or they have forgotten.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 5th, 2011 Tom says:

Reading the sanctimonious smugness of some of the comments on this blog, it's a sure thing that any gay person looking to find Jesus would find the welcome mat pulled right out from under them at the entrance of most SDA churches. It is no small wonder to me why so many gays want nothing to do with the church and have retreated into their own community where at least they aren't made to feel like scum that should be swept out with the trash.

Does it ever cross the minds of some you folks, who wouldn't even want to sit next to a gay person in church, but instead choose to stay a "safe" distance from them, that you may be further from the kingdom of heaven than those you look down on?

The first person at the tomb of Jesus on ressurection morning was a former prostitute, Mary Magdelene, believed to be the same person in John 8, who the self-righteous crowd wanted to stone. Thank God Jesus gives comfort to afflicted and he afflicts the spiritually comfortable, who think they have it all together, but are no more than white-washed tombs in the Saviors eyes!


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 5th, 2011 Trevor Hammond says:

RE Tom's comment: "The first person at the tomb of Jesus on ressurection morning was a former prostitute, Mary Magdelene, believed to be the same person in John 8, who the self-righteous crowd wanted to stone."

1] With all due respect Tom, we are not talking about 'former' homosexuals…

2] Nobody here on this blog has condemned anyone or are remotely even hinted planning to stone 'gays'.

3] Seventh-day Adventist Christians are have always been generally a warm hearted people who are kindly towards others and are reminded time and time again of 1Cor 13.

4] Yes, many speak strongly about certain issues (even yourself I might add) but that doesn't necessarily mean they are 'gay bashers'. They may not condone this lifestyle, practice or state but the Bible has to be the ultimate auhority on these issues and let me tell you that God makes his will known in no uncertain terms as you well know.

5] The only reason it has gone so far (movie – SGA) is that the church has shown love and tolerance and acceptance: in other words, bent over backwards.

6] All forms of sexual immorality is a sin. Period. Whether there is love, respect, security, political or social correctness, it is sin just like the many other sins.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 5th, 2011 Tom says:

Trevor

Hmm, you say former homosexuals. In otherwards you would put the welcome mat out for those who would claim to be ex-gay, but slam the door in the face of the rest? Does it occur to you that some people are homosexual by orientation, attracted to their own sex, by no conscience choice of their own? How many people who claim the mantle of ex-gay have bought into the notion that it simply a matter of "pray the gay away" and you will somehow miraculously become straight, only to find out after years of living in denial that they have been brainwashed into a cruel hoax when reality of it all comes crashing down on them.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this, while I agree the Bible does not sanction immoral behavior of any kind, why is it that an entire group of people are written off by the church at large and stigmatized because militant gay activists have given them the impression that gays are not worth the time or effort to evangelize. My guess is that the in your face gays represents a small fraction of that population. Most who have a christian upbringing are still in the closet too scared to let anyone know their "secret". They struggle in silence looking for some kind of hope and assurance that if the church did know they would still be loved and not treated as outcasts and shown the door.

There probably wouldn't even have been a film made like "SeventhGay Adventist" if indeed the church was bending over backwards as you claim. Put yourself in the shoes of an Adventist who wakes up every morning of their life knowing they are gay and longs to be loved like the rest of the "normal" folks.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 5th, 2011 TruthWave says:

@CherryAshlock: Jesus did indeed mingled with all kinds of sinners, but he didn't condone their sexual sins, whether homosexual sins or heterosexual sins. The heinous nature of the sexual sins can be better comprehended by reading the death penalty for sexual sin and perversions, as given by Jesus to Moses in the book of Leviticus. If Jesus were here today, I don't see Him sharing a neutered Gospel with homosexuals or hetersexuals.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 6th, 2011 Preston says:

Indeed, Jesus was against all sin. He called all to repentance. If He were here, I see Him writing in the sand, accusing the accusers.

This is an area of intense hypocrisy within the church. I am, like most straight men (especially), naturally homophobic. It has been, in a perverse way, a source of pride. I struggle to understand that which is naturally abhorrent to me. It is easy to condemn things that do not tempt us. Still, we use and exploit the talents of gay musicians, storytellers, and other gifted contributors.

I am against "normalizing" the gay lifestyle within the church (i.e. marriage, dating, or "living the life") as the Bible clearly (Old and New Testaments) calls it wrong. However, I am aware of the forgiveness and restoration granted to more than a few pastors and evangelists — who happened to be productive tithe gatherers, who sinned ("openly") with women. We all need forgiveness (particularly me). We all need to change our ways.

Somehow, we cannot seem to focus our condemnation as strongly on those whose sins are more familiar to our own. Have you ever considered that our "natural" sin repulses God? Yet, He calls us to Him.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 6th, 2011 Tom says:

Yes indeed, Preston. I couldn't have said it better myself. To the degree that we live in a sinful world and all bear the marks of a sinful nature begotten since the Fall, we are all damaged goods. It is altogether too easy for those who aren't gay, who don't really care to undeerstand why some are that way, to simply write off those who are as some kind of special class of sinners deserving a pronounced condemnation. It is easier for the indifferent or the smug, or maybe those who are just uncomfortable with it all, to fall back on those few clobber texts in the Bible and think they have done their "duty" to cleanse the church.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 7th, 2011 angelilo says:

There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, but are justified freely, by his grace, through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. Romans 3: 23-24

This is what I live by. I am a sinner, it doesn't matter that I am gay.

I am gay. And I am a Seventh-Day Adventist. I can't stop being either.

But I am saved because of the blood that Christ shed for me.

I live only because Christ lives within me.

Who is anyone to tell me otherwise? Are you not a sinner too?


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 9th, 2011 beckywc says:

Becky Wang

Amen to Angelilo's comment. The ground is level at the foot of the cross.

As Paul says in 1 Cor 15:15, "By the grace of God I am what I am."

I was born Chrinese and heterosexual,

Thanks to a man pushing a wheelbarrow with books in China who sold a book to my grandfather, I am a 3rd generation Seventh-day Adventist and choose to be committed to this wonderful faith.

I will always be Chinese and heterosexual until the new heaven and earth where I look forward to meeting you.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 9th, 2011 wfnoel says:

Tom,

The person God used to teach me the practical mechanics of how God works to redeem us was a homosexual who had learned through dealing with his weakness what it meant to depend on God to do for us what we are powerless to do for ourselves. I pity those who are afraid to welcome homosexuals into the fellowship of the church because they have not learned that same lesson.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 9th, 2011 Tom says:

Thank-you for those words wfnoel. In your first sentence you have described my life's spiritual journey. Part of me would like to volunteer a personal testimony to the makers of this film, but the other part tells me it is safer just to keep my mouth shut. Anything I would say would not be for my own personal benefit, but would be to try and open some people's eyes and hearts who thoroughly misunderstand or don't care to understand just what some people have gone through. I have been most fortunate because I do not fit the stereotypical template, whatever that might be, that most church members conjure up in their minds of someone who is gay. Furthermore I do not live some clandestine double lifestyle. But it causes the most frustrating internal turmoil to wonder if I would be received in the church the way I am now if everyone knew, even though I would be exactly the same person as I was before they knew.

Let's face it most folks just don't know how to handle it, so I keep my mouth shut, knowing that Jesus really loves me, that I have assurance of salvation, that by this He may teach me and use in ways that He may have not been able to do otherwise. It has taken me most of my life to come to that state of mind, and bring peace with it all. It has sensitized me to the plight of others in ways that I wouldn't normally have reached on my own, and made me a lot less judgmental.

Now let's see how some folks will respond to this revelation. I already outed myself on Spectrum six months ago on the blog, "Why I am a pro-gay SDA." Again, I have no personal ax to grind, except to say that before someone gets in my face here on AT about this, stop and think what it is like to crawl into my skin for the past 50 years. I'm not soliciting sympathy, just trying to put some skin on this to folks who have come to know me on the AT world, that some of your perceptions and even prejudice could be off-base and make life more difficult for some folks who already think they are at the bottom of the pecking order in the church.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 9th, 2011 Elaine Nelson says:

As more children grow up and their parents, especially those in denominational employment, realize their child is gay, things will change. It's only others they find contemptible, but it is impossible to look at that child that bore and watched through childhood and now discover he is gay, your whole attitude will change–unless you decide to disown that child and that is so despicable that it is unthinkable for any parent to even consider.

Fifty years ago, a divorced person would not dare disclose to the church membesrs or it would mean disfellowshipping. The times they are a'changin' but too late for the generations today. This is one of the reasons that Christianity is losing membership and in the latest polls there are an increasing number of people when asked about religious membership say "none." The "nones" are growing because of the radical Christians who have given Christianity a bad name.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 9th, 2011 hlfnlsn says:

Why should being gay be viewed or treated any differently than alcoholism? If a person comes clean and declares they are an alcoholic, I have often seen them met with open arms and abundant understanding, but when a person declares they are gay, they are often shunned and treated with contempt. I think the reason is two fold. On one hand you often have a group simply reacting in a very un-christ-like manner to a situation that they find very difficult to relate to. On the other hand, you often have a group of people that are not willing to look at "being gay" the same as being an alcoholic. Rarely have I come across an alcoholic who is "proud of it". I have met several recovering alcoholics who are proud of their sobriety and the victory over their addiction to alcohol, but never anyone proud to be addicted to the stuff. I can accept that a person can be born gay, but what my faith in Christ, refuses to allow me to accept, is that a person who is born gay, has no choice in how they live their life. A person born an alcoholic, can choose not to drink alcohol. I'm not saying it is an easy choice for them but it is a choice. Why is it that whenever I hear a story of a person that was born gay, who overcame that and went on to a happy celebate life or a happy life with a member of the opposite sex, those people are met with rolled eyes are comments such as "they are just living a lie" or "they were never truly gay to begin with"? Gay people certainly need to feel a great deal of support from church members, but not support of their "gayness" but support in their struggle to overcome. Support in their walk with Christ. There is a growing SDA community that would like us to support gay-marriage. How would openly supporting gay marriage be any different than openly supporting, an alcoholics bar tab? The reason the church should be a safe place for an alcoholic to turn to is because he should know that he will find the support to overcome his addiction, and he won't find anything there that helps him further his addiction. The pro-gay agenda that seems to be spreading through the church seems to be full of people that would like to have an open bar at their AA meatings. I fully understand that we as a church need to do better in embracing those struggling with all types of sin, but we also need to make sure that we foster an environment where sin is not encouraged.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 9th, 2011 Tom says:

hlfnlan

I hear what you are saying and agree with a great deal of what you say, but do you realize how offensive your opening sentence is, "why should being gay be viewed any differently than alcoholism." Why is it that the notion of someone being gay automatically provokes the idea that one is sleeping around and is therefor lumped into a group with adulterer, murderers and drunkards?

I lived in shame inside most of my life, gay bashing as a means to cope in denial, hating the gay rights movement because it was a constant reminder of what I hated in myself, and thinking that I could somehow pray the gay away. I even went through reparative therapy twice, only to become more depressed and even suicidal because I thought God didn't care or I wasn't trying hard enough because it didn't work.

A nervous breakdown in 2008, caused me to rethink a lot of things. I'm not looking for excuses but solutions. For me that was finally realizing that God had changed me, but not my sexual orientation, that he loved me, and that like Paul I needed to quit praying to have this thorn in the flesh removed because it wasn't going to happen. Do I subscribe to the notion of gay pride? No, but neither do I drag around an albatross of shame anymore either. Where once I thought the militancy of gays was causing the negative reaction from mainstream christianity, I now see that it is the other way around. The indifference and outright rejection of many by the church for so many years is what has sparked the fire in the heart of gay people in the church who feel they have been unjustly condemned for just being attracted to the same sex from no conscious choice of their own.

The question begs to be asked, how many gays would never have gone into a lifestyle that led many to an early death with AIDS, or felt a need to join a gay community where they found support and love outside the church, if the church would have taken a more compassionate approach.

I remember well the night 33 years ago I stood on a bridge late one Friday night trying to drink myself into a stupor to get enough nerve to end it all by jumping. Earlier that day I wanted to run out in front a cement truck at an intersection in town. I felt I was nothing more than fuel for hell and I just couldn't go on and I was afraid to tell anyone my secret. At that point in my life I had told no one.

Strangely when I woke up the next morning still alive and terribly hung over, something prompted me to go to church. I hadn't been for a long time. Several members knew I drank heavily, but none knew why or what I was dealing with inside. I don't remember the sermon that day, but I do remember the smile from a young pastor who greeted me warmly. I know I looked like hell and smelled like a saloon. He seemed to see beyond that. I saw Jesus in his eyes and it's a long story but he ended up being the first person I spilled my guts to. His reaction was not to clobber me with texts on homosexuality. He showed genuine care and compassion, something that gave me some hope. There was this one family, a very conservative one I might add, who showed me the love of Jesus that was beyond words for me to describe here. It took me a year before I finally shared my "secret"with them. Unfazed the lady gave me a big hug and said Jesus loved me. While I don't think they embraced many of the choices I had made at that point in my life, they embraced me. That is what really mattered to me and made a difference in my life.

It's called winsome witnessing, folks. I dare say we accept folks where they are, love them unconditionally and demonstrate by our own life that we have tapped into a lifeline and closeness to God that they will eventually find irresistible. Jesus said, "if I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto me." Maybe I'm being naive here to think that that works better than rubbing what some think is someone else's abomination in their face. It won my heart to Jesus, where the opposite would most likely have led me to an early death from either suicide or AIDS.

Is what I said here sinking in? I speak with such boldness, because I am certain there are stories out there that are far different than mine, of folks who were thrown an anvil instead of a lifeline, and as a result sank and drowned spiritually at the hands of some pious church members who thought they were holding the standard high.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 10th, 2011 hlfnlsn says:

Hi Tom,

So very glad that you are with us today to share your story, and that the devil did not win that night on the bridge. I think you may have misunderstood my opening sentence. My statement said nothing of people sleeping around, let alone anything resembling murder or adultery. What I was driving at with my opening statement was, that Alcoholism is an issue that I have seen the church handle with a great deal of understanding and compassion, and the issue of being gay should be handled with the same level of understanding/compassion, if not a whole lot more. I do not believe that every gay person sleeps around, and I understand that there are probably plenty of people who identify themselves as gay yet live their lives with the highest of biblical morals upheld. However, as you most clearly illustrated, that does not mean that they are not struggling with a deep internal turmoil. My comparison with alcoholism is that when a person stands up and admits that they are an alcoholic, they are admiting that they are struggling with something in their life that is far bigger than they can tackle on their own, but they are aware that it is something they need to find a way to deal with. Being gay is not a sin, and neither is being an alcoholic. Well, I guess that depends on how the two are defined. I am using the term alcoholic, as a person who will always posses the urge or tendency towards the sin of drunkeness, for the rest of their lives regardless of wether or not they ever consume another sip of alcohol. Their addiction is beyond their control, and it was never their choice to be addicted to anything. Our church has quite an amazing ability to embrace the alcoholic in a loving and open manner that makes it clear that we love him as a child of God but do not like the substance that he is addicted to. We as a church need to do a much better job of embracing, those who come out of the closet, with loving and open arms. We need to let them know that we understand they are dealing with quite a struggle and we are here to help them get through it any way we can. That being said, I also do not want to create any environment that promotes or supports willful sin. It just seems that it is too politicaly incorrect these days to call sin what it is. It seems that looking at "being gay" with the slightest notion of it being anything short of 100% ok, is hate mongering and un-christian. Anywho, I just wanted to clarify my opening statement from earlier and let you know that it was not intended to be offensive in the slightest, and I am sorry for any hurt it might have caused.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 11th, 2011 Philip Law says:

Becky,

Does on level ground include:

This is what I live by. I am a sinner, it doesn't matter that I am a murderer

I am murderous. And I am a Seventh-Day Adventist. I can't stop being either.

But I am saved because of the blood that Christ shed for me.

I live only because Christ lives within me.

Who is anyone to tell me otherwise? Are you not a sinner too?

If not then it is not level.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 12th, 2011 angelilo says:

Of course those that have committed murder are included in God's grace. There are numerous examples of this in the Bible including Moses and David.

Isaiah 59:1 Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 12th, 2011 Tom says:

Philip

Some people just don't get. Your attempt at spinning what is meant by level ground is anything but cute. In your neat little world, do you make any difference between what some one is, i.e. gay, with sexual behavior, i.e. gay sex? You just lump us altogether with murderers, adulterers and rapists. To you it seems to make no difference that many of us have found a better way in Christ and have turned our back on our past behaviors and have put our hand to the plow of God and tried not to look back.

Again, crawl into my skin for the last 50 years and you may see how frustrating it is to listen to people who smugly answer it all with what's next SDA adulterers, sda murdeers, SDA drunkards? Really winsome man!


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
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Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 16th, 2011 markham says:

"All forms of sexual immorality is a sin. Period. Whether there is love, respect, security, political or social correctness, it is sin just like the many other sins."

Well said Tevor. God calls all to repentance. Being gay is not the sin, in my view. Same sex sexual relationships, however, are contrary to a thus saith the Lord. Isn't this film really all about accepting a gay lifestyle as OK? Certainly, all sin is abhorrent to the Creator. Some sins have a greater adverse effect on society than others. Allowing children to be raised in a home with two mothers or two fathers is beyond the pale.

Homosexual activists have been quite successful in converting many to their perverse agenda. How sad. Even some professed Christians.

Truth Seeker


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 16th, 2011 Elaine Nelson says:

"Homosexual activists have been quite successful in converting many to their perverse agenda."

It would be sad, if true. Such a statement should be verified and not simply one's opinion. Where is the evidence that ANYONE has been "converted" to homosexuality from heterosexuality, or many? Is it possible for a heterosexual to become a homosexual simply by a suggestion? How many do you kinow who fit such a description? I know several homosexuals and their parents all have said they knew it when their child was very young, nothing abut being "converted,"anymore than a heterosexual can be converted to a homosexual. How many do you know in either camp? It's fear of being "conveted" which keeps some at "arm's length" for fear of contamination. (Hint: homosexuality is no more "contagious" than heterosexuality.)


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 17th, 2011 Tom says:

Thank-you Elaine for saying it so plainly and correctly. Too many folks here are thinking that a film that shows people telling how they were treated in the church once they were found to be gay, that that automatically concludes they are trying to promote a "let it all hang out" gay lifestyle.

If I sound defensive here it is because I'm tired of the same old parade of bandwagons that think they are following a "thus saith the Lord" when they villify a group of people they simply do not or really care to understand.

You are right Elaine, I think it is fear of someone being "converted to being gay", another falsehood, that keeps so many at arms length.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 19th, 2011 Philip Law says:

I don't get it why are you upset of being lump with murderer etc. as sinner? I think the insistence on Homomsexual Exceptionalism is the real problem. Do you feel insulted by murderers? As sinner are you more equal?


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 19th, 2011 Tom says:

Phillip

No I don't believe in homosexual exceptionalism as you call it. What I object to is people automatically associating what a person is ,i.e. gay, with what automatically comes to their mind, sinful behavior, i.e. gay sex.

A person may think they would like to do someone in, but in the eyes of the law they are not a murderer, unless they commit a homicide. I am familiar with what Jesus said on expanding on the law in Matthew, but that is not what I am talking about here.

Yes we are all sinners. None of us is the exception. What I object to is the church seeming to look down on gays as somehow the worst form of sinner in need of a more pronounced condemnation.

Can you in any way in your mind walk in some gay persons shoes and understand what it is like to be so singled out for added condemnation as some homophobes feel justified in doing?


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 24th, 2011 wfnoel says:

Thank you for being so open, Tom. Society may paint different stripes on people based on their particular weaknesses, but the ones that really matter were the stripes laid on Jesus so we could be healed. Hang onto that redemption. Keep letting God work in your life!


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 26th, 2011 Philip Law says:

Tom,

First we agree that both of us are sinners so that I am not talking down on you.

To walk in the shoes of an alcoholic I can feel the struggle of a peron addicted to alcohol. I become more sensitive to his/her plight and accept him/her as a fellow sinner, victim of a vice with Christlike love, sensitivity and tolerance. I afirm the function of AA in helping him/her to OVERCOME alcoholism.

The same applies to drug addicts, etc., etc.

To walk in the shoes of homosexuals, I am expected to accept them as having unchangeable alternative life style. Any scrptural reference to homosexuality as sin is misreading or misapplying scripture, homphobic and singling out homosexuals as targets for discrimation or worst. I am expected to be sensitive, tolerant, accepting and better yet confirm or condone.

Isn't it the traversity of the paradigm of walking in someone else shoes? Isn't it a demand for homosexual exceptionalism?


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 26th, 2011 Hansen says:

Tom, I'm not exactly sure what your driving at. If you are saying that you suffer from same sex attraction but are not having sex, then you are NOT gay. It's a mistake for you to identify yourself with the gay community simply because you are attracted to men IF you are not habitually having sex. I say habitually because it is possible that you may sometimes slip. If you happen to be attracted to men, It would be expected that you would slip into homoeroticism.

There is a big difference between a one time encounter in the back seat of a car and nightly carousing in gay bars, jo parties, orgies, and what not. Those are the things which characterize the "gay" lifestyle.

The "gay" lifestyle was all about unbridled sexual indulgence without accountability, until HIV bared its fangs. Then people became accountable whether they liked it or not.

Why are you sensitive about gay bashing? You are not gay. You suffer from same sex attraction, just as most men suffer from opposite sex attraction. If I wanted, I could go out tonight and have sex with several different women. Some I would be obligated to pay. some I would feel obliged to pay. One or two might actually pay me. I'm probably going to stay home and practice playing blues guitar. I don't consider myself a "John" or a whoremonger or a dog because I am attracted to beautiful women. I'm just a garden variety sinner.

There are multitudes of single and married heterosexuals who are struggling with opposite sex attraction just as much as you struggle with SSA. If you think that all the unmarried people in the Adventist church are sexless stones, perhaps you should be smoking something. Simple old adultery is not unheard of either.

I don't know a lot of people in the Adventist church and have even fewer close friends; however, I am personally aware of three pastors and who had moral falls. Certainly there are many more. I doubt that any of these people consider themselves swingers or playboys. I doubt that they are defensive about the condemnation of sexual immorality. They probably realize the gravity of their sins and have repented as best they could.

If you don't like gay bashing and homophobia, avoid it. Don't paint yourself as some kind of martyr or victim.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 26th, 2011 Tom says:

Hansen

Why is it that you think that someone who is attracted to the same sex, but you only consider them gay if they are carousing around having casual sex? I define gay as someone attracted to the same sex, but not necessarily indulging in same. Shucks, I not only gave that up years ago, I've been married for nearly 3 decades, and faithful to the one and only woman that I could have ever been married to.

So you say I"m not gay. Than what am I? I still am predominately attracted to my own sex after all these years and despite my best efforts it seems to be hard wired. I have tried reparative therapy twice and I can attest that it is the worse thing I ever did. So I guess what I'm saying is that I consider myself gay, but that doesn't define my behavior. Can you see the distinction? Someone who is straight is considered a whoremonger if they sleep around. If they stop, that doesn't mean they cease to be straight. Get my drift?

I never immersed myself into the "gay lifestyle" as you call it, even though I skated around the perifery when I was younger. Why is it that christians see it as only some ongoing seamy orgy, when in fact I believe that represents only a small part of a subculture, much like the brothels and one night stands seen in a subculture of the straight world.

Does it ever occur to church people that when a gay person is met with such denigrating stigma in the church, that many see a welcome alternative in the gay culture where there isn't the sting of stigma? It is no small wonder that some leave feeling rejected and figure if you can't lick it, join it.

I was fortunate that I never was the victim of such stigmitization, because except for a pastor and one supportive family in the church I didn't reveal my "secret" to anyone in the church, and for the most part I still haven't. Had it not been for that, I probably never would have found Jesus and returned to the church. Should the day ever come that I out myself to my church, as I have on this forum, it will most definitely be in trying to help someone else, not for own benefit in the least.

I'm not a martyr in spite of what a few of you have concluded. Quite the opposite. For years I tried to run from myself and was an adamant gay basher. Today I bow my head in shame for some of things, in my confusion and ignorance, I may have said that made life harder for someone else.

Some of you are going to misunderstand this, but I believe that God has sensitized me to the plight of others who have suffered stigmitization for being gay. You won't see me out joining any parades or holding protest signs, or aligning myself with any gay pride groups or participating in any boycotts by organized gay groups. I guess I'm a bit of an oxymoron because I even donate to the Boy Scouts who ban gay who are open about their sexuality.

Philip, when I say you should walk in my shoes, you immediately equate that as trying to identify with an alcoholic by thinking you would have to partake of same. That is not what I am getting at. Maybe I'm just asking for too much for some folks to understand, because I have lived in my shoes and I still don't understand it all, so how can someone on the outside even begin to identify.

Just try to tap into this. Just because someone is gay, doesn't automatically mean they live life like an alley cat. I put my pants on one leg at a time just like you. I go to church, read my Bible, try and live life as I think Jesus would have me, and I want to see as many people in the kingdom of heaven as I can influence to choose Jesus as Lord of their life, bar none.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 26th, 2011 Hansen says:

Tom, Being gay implies debauchery. That was what gay liberation was about when it started back in the 60's. Remember Stonewall.? It was a gay bar in NY, a place where gay men met to hook up. I spent several years working with AIDS patients in the gay community in W Hollywood and its environs.

I know what went on. I interviewed gay men regarding their lifestyle. Gays were so carefully studied from an infection control perspective, you could calculate your odds of being infected from various gay practices. If you want to know what being gay was about, read "And the Band Played On." If you have a really strong stomach "Faggots" by Larry Kramer probably best captures the gay spirit of the times. I was unable to handle more than a few pages.

There were a few "responsible" gay couples that lived "normal" lives. Some were infected before they became "monogamous" and some after. Gay relationships remained "open." The things that went on in the commuity would better be rehearsed in a porn magazine than here.

If you have been married for decades and do not indulge in gay sex, then you are not gay. Why you identify yourself with a group of which you are truly not a part is a therapeutic agenda. There are other issues which underlie this manifestation of what appears to be a personality disorder. Individuals who aspire to victimhood are ill.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 26th, 2011 Tom says:

Hansen

Being gay only implies debauchery because that is how YOU see it. You said you spent some years working with some AIDS patients, so you think that makes you an authority on the subject of homosexuals. Well, dude, you saw only a small part of a much bigger picture.

How about all those young folks out there in churches who struggle with this and fear to tell anyone because they expect they would be met with the same BS you subscribe to.

You suggested some book I never heard of "And the band played on" and another one "Faggots" The very nerve of you to even use such a word here. I can only imagine the kind of homophobia that such trash would describe. The Ku Klux Klan has books on blacks too. They only see African Americans as N…..s.

You need to read Andrew Marin's book "Love is an Orientation". It might give you a broader perspective to look at this beyond a sometime death watcher in an AIDS clinic. Google on the "Marin Foundation" and you will see that he is a conservative christian who has both a heart and ahead.

Listen buster, I'm not a person who aspirers to victimhood. Far from it. Former President Clinton holds the patient on that one and I couldn't stand him and his "I feel you pain" mentality. I happen to be a pull yourself up by your bootstraps type of person all my life. The reason I continue to post here is not some personal agenda, but I know others will come along later and read this blog. Hopefully, what I have said here will give them some hope instead of pushing them over the edge. Scan back on this blog and you will see that I was able to do just that by offering some hope and compassion, "a word in due season" if you will, to a young man who desperately needed to hear it.

At one time I thought if the gay activists weren't so militant, there probably wouldn't be such a backlash from churches. It is my observation now that it is the other way around. I don't buy into gay activism, but it was the churches that drew first blood with their denegration, and this has fueled the gay backlash. One feeds on the other. And the casualties are many. It took those number of gay teen suicides last fall to shake me lose from my closed world, and speak out like I am here. But I don't expect you to see the light nor offer any assistance aside from your suggestion of some quack reparative therapist. Been there done that!! Thank God "we have a high priest who can sympathize with out weaknesses…" Hebrews 4:15That is what I mean by identifying!!


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 26th, 2011 Elaine Nelson says:

"To walk in the shoes of homosexuals, I am expected to accept them as having unchangeable alternative life style."

No, if you had written: "To walk in the shoes of homoexuals, I am expected to accept them as having unchangeable SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

"Lifestyle" has been an overused adjecive to describe promiscuity, not orientation. A heterosexual or homosexual will always have that orientation whether they ever act on it or not. When children at an early age show all sorts of signs of preferring the dress, behaviors and everything associated with the opposite of their physical sexuality, then true homosexuality begins–though it may never be acted upon, at least until postpuberty. Even the Bible has nothing whatsoever to say about homosexual orientation as it was not even mentioned in all its pages. It was both heterosexual and homosexual promiscuity that was spoken against. While the Greeks had long practiced having a younger male lover but were married–to have progeny, this was condemned because the Bible characters were familiar with this accepted practice. Debauchery was associated with random sexuality, never was faithful monogamy of either sexual orientation condemned.

The Bible has been misused throughout the centuries by those who seek to find endorsement for their ideas. Only by careful exegesis and knowledge of both Greek and Hebrew, can such texts be accurately interpreted. Even "effeminate" behavior was condemned. Anyone care to define that adjective? Many very heterosexuals have been labeled "effeminate" who loved music, art, cooking, and flower arranging. How sad and misguided!


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 26th, 2011 Hansen says:

Tom, the keyboard warrior rhetoric isn't really useful here. Larry Kramer was/is a gay activist who cofounded the Gay Men's Health Crisis one of the largest organization serving AIDS patients in the world. He was denounced by his own community [the gay one] for telling the truth about the debauchery and superficiality which characterized their lifestyle. If you are unfamiliar with the work of Randy Schilts, "And the Band Played On," then obviously you are quite uninformed about the political and sociological factors which led up to what became the AIDS crisis.

You are a man who doesn't participate in gay sex and has been married to a woman for decades, yet you identify yourself as gay? Do you expect me to believe that you are connected to the homosexual community, a group which defines itself through its sexual orientation? You may be a charter member of the Adventist repressed homoerotic community. You are not a member of the gay community, despite your "outlaw" leanings

I'd suggest that you get back on the couch, but you probably know it is a useless endeavor. You denouce reparative therapy but you don't participate in homoerotic activity and are married to a woman. Sounds to me like you are a poster boy for the very thing you rail against.

My attitude of late, when people start passing the hat for gays is "I already gave,"which I did. I still, however, will speak up when I see people dipping into the hat to serve their own dysfunctional agenda.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 26th, 2011 Elaine Nelson says:

Gays are condemned for living their orientation; they are condemned if they claim to be "cured" and are now practicing heterosexuality.

Either you're damned on way or the other. Why should anyone who claims to be homosexual, be doubted by another? Who has been given such omniscience? We should accept another's expression as an honest statement, rather than continually questioning an honest statement. With such an attitude why should someone want to force himself into a religious organization with such a questioning attitude?


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 27th, 2011 inga says:

Tom asks, "Does it occur to you that some people are homosexual by orientation, attracted to their own sex, by no conscious choice of their own?"

I believe this is the crux of the matter. Somehow it is impossible for some folks on this blog to conceive that gay people were "born that way," for all practical purposes. Whether it was genetic, prenatal influences or early childhood environment doesn't really matter. It is experienced as being "born that way" to most gay people.

The only reality any of us can deal with is our own reality, and for most gay people, the reality is that of being "different" as long as they can remember. At some point in life they identified the difference as being "gay" or "homosexually oriented."

Now let me ask my fellow "conservatives" on this board, do you believe that it is possible to be born with sinful inclinations? If so, why doubt that it is impossible to be born with a homosexual orientation?

Secondly, if we can accept that it is possible to be born with a sexual orientation that makes people attracted to their own sex, please consider that this same-sex orientation is every bit as powerful as our opposite-sex orientation.

Thirdly, do you believe that it is possible for you to choose to be romantically attracted to the same sex? (For some it may be possible, but I'm guessing it is not an option for most folks.)

Fourthly, if it not an option for us to change our opposite-sex orientation, it would be reasonable to accept that it is not possible to change one's same-sex orientation.

Now, supposing all these premises are true — as I do– does Jesus have an answer to the "homosexual dilemma"?

My experience tells me that Tom is correct when he writes, "My guess is that the in your face gays represents a small fraction of that population. Most who have a christian upbringing are still in the closet too scared to let anyone know their "secret". They struggle in silence looking for some kind of hope and assurance that if the church did know they would still be loved and not treated as outcasts and shown the door."

Is Christ's solution being portrayed by the postings on this board? I wonder whether it could be …

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
https://ssnet.org (The Sabbath School Network)

https://blog.gladventist.org (The GLAdventist Blog)


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 27th, 2011 inga says:
 
Hansen, I do not doubt your experience when you write, " I spent several years working with AIDS patients in the gay community in W Hollywood and its environs. I know what went on. I interviewed gay men regarding their lifestyle."

I don't doubt that to you, "Being gay implies debauchery."

And that is precisely the problem. In today's socienty "being gay" currently means being homosexually oriented — no more, no less. (For a gay Adventist perspective, see https://www.GayAdventist.com) Granted, to most folks it also implies being sexually active with the same sex — and that is an implication that needs to be adddressed.

Does being "straight" aka "heterosexual" necessarily imply being sexually active with the opposite sex? If not, why doubt that being "gay" aka "homosexual" does not necessarily imply being sexually active with the same sex?

Secular society teaches that being a sexual being implies that we must regularly indulge in sexual activity whether or not we are married.

Can we, as Adventists, do no better than to perpetuate secular ideology??

Hansen, I agree with Tom that the kind of rhetoric you've been using in this discussion is precisely the kind of rhetoric that pushes our same-sex attracted young people towards what you label as "the gay community" — those sections of our large cities that abound in gay bars with open arms to welcome searching young people. When we reject them in our churches, damning them to hell, where else are they supposed to go?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
https://ssnet.org (The Sabbath School Network)

https://blog.gladventist.org (The GLAdventist Blog)

 


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 27th, 2011 Hansen says:

Inga, I have a lot of respect for you. You strike me as one of the sane FOGs [friend of gays] The work that some "Adventists" are engaged in as advocates for homosexual inclusiveness is simply evil. I don't place you in that group. I need not rehearse my resume here. It consists of much more than visiting an AIDS hospice on the weekend a few times; consequently, my picture and understanding of the AIDS community is much more extensive than that of most people.

I also worked in the art and antique business in Los Angeles. As a young man, I was invited into the home of a couple of men who operated a gallery on Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles. I spent about a year there. Neither of this couple were impacted by AIDS.

As I'm sure you know, the gay community has many dimensions. Some refuse to define themselves by their sexuality or orientation. They are successful in their careers and have fulfilling lives apart from their sexual preferences. Those are, more or less, psychologically healthy gay men. But they are in the minority.

The larger gay community, and I am referring to the thousands living in the W Hollywood area, probably SF as well, have/had numerous issues, including antisocial personality elements. Their lifestyle is characterized by Poly substance abuse, tobacco use, and even caffeinated beverage use.

I don't know exactly what Tom wants. He poses as a gay advocate of sorts, yet he doesn't really belong to the community. He denies indulging in homosexual conduct and has been married for decades. He opposes reparative therapy, yet has achieved major milestones of reparative therapy. If he wants to advocate for reaching out to the gay community with the gospel of a crucified and risen Saviour, calling for devotion to Christ and repentance from sinful indulgence [including homosexual behavior], he can do that.

Others have tried. For the most part, it's an exercise in futility. I reject the idea that it is the churches fault that gays are hostile to it. Gays are hostile to the Bible, Jesus, and the church, not only because of their sexuality. Many oppose anything which requires restraint, temperance, moderation.

The Christian community doesn't need homosexuals who refuse to repent of their sin. They belong with the men of Sodom. The true church doesn't need unrepentant homosexuals to fatten its membership rolls and tithe income.

There are a lot of homosexuals with $$$ who would gladly pay a measly 10% for the assurance that they can take their gay lover to heaven with them. Perhaps the SE California conference is already selling the tickets.

They are not going to hear that message from me. Why do people pander to the gay community as if they are some special group? Their narcissism demands that they be catered to but when the demands are met, they will usually just laugh in your face. The best practice is to present the cross of Christ. Let God circumcise their hearts. Those who won't submit shall be damned, like the rest of us who spurn the grace of God.
 


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 27th, 2011 Elaine Nelson says:

We have now been rendered a judgment from the judge and executioner. Since no human has yet been given the keys to the kingdom, God alone will decide who will be welcomed to his kingdom which is "not of this world."
 


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 27th, 2011 Tom says:

Thank-you Elaine and Inga. As for you Hansen, I'm not sure what to say if anything more. I think I would rather dance with a porcupine. You totally misunderstand what I have been trying to say, even going so far as to label me a case for the psychiatrist couch. I noticed one of your posts back to me recommended going to some shill named Stiltz, "who would either straighten me out or push me over the edge." Then later I saw that that part had been deleted. How did that happen? I'd have prefered it be left in so readers could see further evidence of your absurdities.

Obviously you choose to use a frame of reference in judging gays that is of the lowest order. I know that is out there, because at one time that was about all I knew myself because I participated in same. I hated myself so much for being gay and it seemed like I could find no way out. I would go to San Francisco, far away from where anyone knew me and let my hair down once inawhile. You don't have to tell me what debauchery exists in the bar scene and baths, I was in both, and you are right on that point. But that is a small portion of gays. You make it sound like that is the status quo. And coming from someone who worked in an AIDS clinic, you are looking at a very narrow field. Sort of like looking at the Black Panthers and concluding that all African Americans are like such, if I may use that for an illustration.

I distance myself from supporting or even sanctioning any of that. I am not a gay activist. If anything, until recently I hated gay activism because it was a constant reminder of what I didn't like about myself. It is only since I have been able to make peace with myself the last couple years, understanding that God doesn't damn me because of my orientation, that I have truly been able to have the proper empathy toward others who are gay.

No one can love there neighbor as themselves if they are filled with self hate. Perhaps I may be now looking to a narrow field of gays who were raised in the church and feel like outcasts for something they never chose to be. I'm talking about orientation here. How can anyone be brought to repentence, if the door is slammed in their face before they even get inside!

You can't even begin to understand me and I'm done trying to convince you. I still think you should read Andrew Marin's "Love is an Orientation" to get a broader perspective on this, FYI Marin is a conservative christian who is not an apologist for the gay lifestyle, who decided to take up residence in Chicago's "Boys Town" and mix with the gay community to try and better understand gays and set up a ministry for them. He has been successful in reaching many and making a difference when churches at large see gays as a lost cause.

Just look at the model of Jesus, who showed compassion on one who was at the bottom of the pecking order, a prostitute. Certainly He was the only one who was without sin and qualified to cast the first stone. What happened was about as far from what this woman was expecting. His words, "Neither do I condemn you" just didn't fit with the vein of religious thinkers then or now. Yes he did add, "Go and sin no more." I believe he said it softly as an invitation to a better life. Too many judgemental religionist prefer a more pronounced part of that with Jesus pointing a finger in her face and telling her to clean up her act.

I have been an SDA since birth, but there is a smugness in Adventism that I have never cared for. Perhaps that is why I find some commonality with Elaine once inawhile, even though we probably are miles apart on a lot of things.
 


 Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 27th, 2011 Tom says:

One last thing Hansen. You gave yourself away when you took that swipe at the SE California conference. It's no wonder you have been so damning in your posts. You have been reading those rags published by right wings SDA purists. I know the president of that conference personally, and I called him when I read what Pilgrims Rest said in their issue "Homosexual Conference at Andrews." You need to hear both sides of that and not swallow everything some yellow journalist publishes.
 


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 27th, 2011 Hansen says:

Tom, You are mistaken about the right wing rags. I mentioned SECC because I spent time with the founder of Adventist Kinship years ago in Southeastern. He told me the story of how and why Adventist Kinship was founded in Southeastern. As I'm sure you know, the founder of Kinship was the gay lover of an SDA pastor who was terminated by the brethren in SECC.

The Adventist gay rights movement was brought about in response to the actions of the SECC brethren. Are they pleased with themselves for contributing to the birth of a movement which blackened the eye of the denomination which employs them? Adventist Kinship beating the SDA church in open court was one of the biggest humiliations the denomination has ever endured. Not disputing the judgment, just pointing out that it might not have happened but for the SECC.

I rarely buy the "formerly gay" schtck, regardless of who is peddling it.
 


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 27th, 2011 Tom says:

The denomination should have never wasted money with a lawsuit against Kinship in the first place. Just like they are wasting more money fighting the makers of this film and their use of the term Seventh-Gay Adventist. The likelihood of losing that battle in court is even greater. Spins on names are used all the time; i.e. Reformed Seventh Day Adventist Church that spun off the mainline church decades ago.

No i didn't know that the founder of Kinship was a gay lover of a pastor in SECC. I have never been a member of Kinship. I disagree with them on same sex marriage, but I see no purpose in bashing them here because a few gays who in their brokenness from facjng rejection by the church found some refuge in that group. It's far better than suicide, and I like to think that God can even use Kinship to reach some gays and bring them through a hard time in their life and eventually lead some to move on to embrace Jesus as Lord of their life in a more spiritually mature

One also has to wonder about someone who knows so much about Kinship and spent time with its founder, hmmm. How's that again? Were it not for the action of the SECC the trademark lawsuit may have never happened. Do you suggest that the SECC should not have fired the pastor who had a gay lover on the side? He needed to be canned. Same goes for a pastor who has a female mistress.

What in the world is" formerly gay schtck?"
 


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 28th, 2011 Hansen says:
 
Tom, The SECC was faced with a difficult decision back in the 70's, which is when the situation I described took place. The pastor was exposed by a third party. It wasn't as if he went to the brethren seeking help with a problem.

Kinship was actually started by a non-Adventist because of his perception of the SECC response to the information they received. I suppose that the founder of Kinship viewed their response as punitive rather than redemptive; consequently, he set about to right the perceived injustice by providing a "safe place" for gay Adventists.

What might the brethren have done that would have been perceived as redemptive? The same thing they could be doing for clergy who, either through doctrinal differences, or moral fall, or divorce, need to change employment. Perhaps there is already a program in place to help struggling clergy. I doubt that there was at that time.

Take care, Tom

 

Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 28th, 2011 Elaine Nelson says:
 
"Those are, more or less, psychologically healthy gay men. But they are in the minority."

And what poll of scientific study has proved those conclusions? Why not make a statement about homosexual acitivity in prisons and extrapolate that to the general population? The only gays that are openly obvious are those who flaunt their orientation. The much larger number: old lesbians and old men who have been monogamous for years are also part of that community of which you write so knowinlgy. They will not be found in the AIDS groups or seen as flaunting the "gay lifestyle."

Most are quietly going about their very normal lives, working cooking, buying groceries, traveling, and all the activities that normal heterosexuals are doing every day. Putting them all in the same "pot" is like saying: "All the black people are criminals" or "all the Muslims are terrorists," or "all the Germans are Nazis." Such generalizations weakens entirely anything else that might be said. One's very personal experience can never be assumed to include everyone of that same orientation.

 


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 28th, 2011 AlvinF says:
 
Hansen,

What do you mean by wanting to recommend psychiatry, if not for Tom's realizing it would be useless? Is it to be found in your assumption that he should consider himself cured, since he has been faithful to his wife for many years? I feel sure that the nature of this hideous curse has been explained to you, probably many times. So, I won't attempt an objective description, but rather a brief referral to my own life.

I somehow have rendered incapable of the physical joys most human beings can. Couldn't be gay by your definition, even if I wanted to, and I don't want to. Maybe it's because of my Adventist upbringing. And, I'm not sufficiently attracted to the ladies. I went ahead and married a girl who loved me very much, thinking it would work out. OOPS!

So, I am left with squelching this thing for 40 years, since, even though I abhor actual gay sex, my conscience gets upset when I occasionally look at bodybuilders, or watch coming-out stories. How many more years do I have to deal with this thing?
  


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 28th, 2011 Elaine Nelson says:
 
Hansen,

Where did I ever say that "most of the people who comprise those communities are well adjusted individuals"?

They likely comprise a small portion of the gays in all the U.S., which you have evidently not surveyed.

FYI, my daughter was an R.N. in a large country jail for many years, so this was not based on newspaper articles. She is now one of the recently appointed inspectors of medical facilities for all the state prisons in California.

Do you recognize or acknowledge that there are many hundreds of gays here in California who were married during the "window" of legalization, and there are many more who are still waiting. Had they preferred living the "gay lifestyle" which you portray, why would the wish to be married? 
 


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 28th, 2011 Hansen says:
 
Alvin, Have you checked with a doctor regarding your physical deprivation? I had a friend who was suffering from an unusual condition which affected her vitality. She was helped by a doctor in Loma Linda who prescribed food containing certain biochemicals which she had missed in her diet for too many years. She was greatly surprised by the results.

If you like looking at body builders, why not join a gym? You can become a body builder yourself, make some new friends.

People need to be honest about who and what they are. Let the consequences rest with the One who cares.

Maybe Adventism is a toxic religion for you.

Elaine, Sorry. It looks you were posting while I was deleting.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 28th, 2011 Tom says:

"People need to be honest about who and what they are. Let the consequences rest with the One who cares."

I tried that here and look what it got me. If I outed myself in my local church the roof would probably fall in on me. Yes I have made monumental strides in turning my back on my past, but I daily battle with a sexual orientation that I never asked for, even though I don't indulge it anymore.

As for Adventism being a toxic religion for gays, that is beginning to appear to be the case, because in most church members minds it appears you are damned whichever way you turn.

 


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 28th, 2011 Hansen says:

Tom, Your life is so pitiful and tragic, it defies reason. No one should have to endure the suffering you have for so many years. That wife of yours, don't you wish you would have married a vile mouth coke head who would have slapped you up side the head instead? I can only imagine the hell you must endure when you go to work or when you did work. Kids? Rotting in a prison somewhere trading homosexual favors for cardboard cell furnishings, no doubt.

Man, I'm soooo glad I'm not you. Feel better now?

I have been urging gays to get out of Adventism for a long time. The psychologically healthy ones do. The hangers on have other issues– needs for rejection, abuse and humiliation which they can have fulfilled in and around SDA land.

As I'm sure you know, many homosexuals like to puff on a marijuana cigarette or even take a few bong hits to set the mood for their homoerotic indulgences. Mrs Ellen G. White, although she never mentioned marijuana to my knowledge, would not approve of marijuana use.

It is believed that United States President Richard M Nixon eschewed marijuana use, in harmony with what can be extrapolated from Sr. White. He was not suspected of homsexuality, either.
 


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 28th, 2011 Tom says:

Well there you have it folks. Pathetic indeed how some folks are so mean spirited they resort to denegrading remarks and display such heartlessness to mock a person and belittle their family.

FYI Hansen, I'm not some pitiful and tragic wreck of a man in need of your pity. I was valedictorian of my high school graduating class, I have been an elder in the church for over 20 years, even head elder, I know various leaders in the church conferences on up the ladder on a first name basis, I hold my head up in my community and am well liked, I am a self made man who earns a six figure income, While I was an alcoholic before I came back to the church 30 years ago I was never into drugs and have never smoked marijuana. My youngest daughter is graduating this year as valedictorian of her class. I have a wonderful wife who loves and understands me in spite of my sexual orientation. I have remained faithful to her all these years and am not about to step out on her. I am a devoted husband, father,grandfather. I am a member of the SDA church, which I have no intention of leaving, even though you would like to show me the door and give me a push to get out.

My life experience enables me to do something that is impossible for you to do, have understanding and empathy for a gay person who feels the sting of rejection that people like you project on them.

So long buster, this is my last post in response to anything here you might have to say. You have succeeded here in making my point, for those who will latter read all the comments on this blog, than anything I could have tried to convince anyone alone without your unwitting sarcasim and put downs.
 


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 29th, 2011 Aidyl says:

Happy Sabbath to All I have been reading the thoughts expressed on the SDA Gay movie and on SDA homosexuals in general and I am saddened. I think in all the back and forth by some of the contributors on the blog that something is being forgotten. The Bible warns us of judging others. The Bible also says that our Heavenly Father looks at the inside whereas man looks at the outside. No one and I repeat NO ONE knows who will be in Heaven and who will not. The church is a place for sinners, it is a place of refuge, and it is a place when the wary and down trodden can find comfort in fellowship with other believers. Somehow on this blob I am not getting the impression that some of the bloggers are mindful of this. The ground at the foot of the cross is level. Homosexuality exists in the Seventh Day Adventist Church. MOST SDA homosexuals are in the closet. These people contrary to what was stated on the blog are not living what some folks have dubbed the ‘lifestyle’. I am 2nd generation SDA and I am a lesbian. The descriptions of what a typical homosexual is as defines by Hansen couldn’t be further from the truth for all the SDA folks I know who are ssa. I will not try to convince Hansen that his perception of homosexuality is limited because his view is his view. But for the other people, who may read this blog please, please remember you are not Jesus, you are not our judge. The SDA Gay movie will feature real people who have had real experiences. There experience may not be yours but it is real none the less. No one has the right to infer that the hurt another human being has experienced in not real to them. I remember the story that Jesus told of the Pharisee and the Publican. The Pharisee did a lot of good works and reminded us all of them. The Publican was so filled with guilt over his repeated failing efforts to be good that all he could cry was Father be merciful to me a sinner. I can’t speak for the entire homosexual world but I can tell you as an SDA who is gay that I can relate to the Publican. Folks be careful that you do not end up relating to the Pharisee. Aidyl

 


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 29th, 2011 Hansen says:

ajdyl, Another movie to watch, about the gay community, is Silver Lake Story. It's a documentary about a gay couple in the Los Angeles area.

There are many dimensions to the gay community. The Kinship Adventists, for example, probably represent a more mentally robust element of Adventist gays. The former chief librarian of a SDA college library and the former associate pastor of a prominent SDA church are both active in Kinship. At least people know where they stand.

Gays certainly have different personalities. The more constricted, secretive type who are repressing their SSA desires could morph into pedophiles. I can assure you that, while being gay is not a crime, assaulting children is. Even first offenses result in jail or prison time.

If you think I'm being judgmental, wait until some convicts get a chance to "judge" you in a custody setting. You'll wish you had taken my advice and fled the toxic, repressive Adventist environment and been honest about who you are. One's sexuality is not something that can be manipulated or repressed or controlled by cold showers and prayer or a daily reading of EGW and the Sabbath school lesson.

Convicts have their own brand "reparative" therapy. If you happen to end up in their venue, you are going to regret it.

 

Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 30th, 2011 Lulu says:

I have heard the term "natural born homoseuxal" being used by homosexuals as an excuse for their actions, but this is a false theory. God's holy book, the Bible, tells us that the practice of the homosexual lifestyle is an enormous sin. God does not make sin, meaning, God does not make homosexual.

Claiming to be 'born that way' is an excuse that will allow them to do what they please without feeling guilty. The Holy Spirit convicts people of their sins, causing them to repent and turn away from it, but those who refuse to do this, and instead continue to live as they please will find any excuse they can to feel justified.

We are to love the sinner, hate the sin. Let us bring them to Christ, show them that their lifestyle choice if not repented and given up will keep them out of heaven. Being patient and showing Christ's character is how we love them.

Homosexuality is a sin, plain and simple. No excuse can change that. It is a fact.


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On April 30th, 2011 Elaine Nelson says:

How comforting to have such certainty. Of what other people are you so adept at analyzing/explaining? Does it take one to know one?

To declare that a person's sexual orientation is a sin is no different than declaring a Downs Syndrome child is a sinner. Seems like Paul said we are all born sinners; who is left out? Or, is it that other people's sins are the ones we so notice?


Re: Filmmakers of 'Seventh-Gay Adventists' Release New Film …
On May 1st, 2011 Hansen says:

Tom, Your life is so pitiful and tragic, it defies reason. No one should have to endure the suffering you have for so many years. That wife of yours, don't you wish you would have married a vile mouth coke head who would have slapped you up side the head instead? I can only imagine the hell you must endure when you go to work or when you did work. Kids? Rotting in a prison somewhere trading homosexual favors for cardboard cell furnishings, no doubt.

Man, I'm soooo glad I'm not you. Feel better now?

I have been urging gays to get out of Adventism for a long time. The psychologically healthy ones do. The hangers on have other issues– needs for rejection, abuse and humiliation which they can have fulfilled in and around SDA land.

As I'm sure you know, many homosexuals like to puff on a marijuana cigarette or even take a few bong hits to set the mood for their homoerotic indulgences. Mrs Ellen G. White, although she never mentioned marijuana to my knowledge, would not approve of marijuana use.

It is believed that United States President Richard M Nixon eschewed marijuana use, in harmony with what can be extrapolated from Sr. White. He was not suspected of homosexuality, either.