My Take: Lessons from a Pope

by Raj Attiken, September 30, 2015: The attention that Pope Francis received from Americans last week was simply staggering. By any and all standards, the Pope “stole the show” wherever he went during his six-day visit to the United States that ended on Sunday. Even the U.S. presidential candidates could not stir up a circus (as some have been good at doing in recent weeks) big or loud enough to draw media attention away from the pope. Pope Francis not only made history (first pope to address the United States Congress); he also made an abundance of impressions. It is about those impressions that I ruminate here.
Let me, at the outset, offer two disclosures: First, I have read the book The Great Controversy; more importantly, I have – and do — read the Bible, including the books of Daniel and Revelation. I have also read what respected Adventist theologians have written about the books of Daniel and Revelation. I am aware of the end-of-time scenarios that Adventists generally paint, and how the Roman Catholic Church is said to figure in those scenarios.
Second, when I watched the pope on television this past week, I did not see a “Holy Father,” “His Holiness,” or the “Vicar of Christ”; the voice I heard was not the “voice of St. Peter.” Instead, I saw and heard a 78-year old Argentinian man – a “gentle man” – who, for most of his life, was known as Jorge Mario Bergoglio. The impressions I formed, therefore, are about a man who is the head of a 1.2 billion-member church and about how he presented himself to the masses who watched him.
For a man who occupies an office that is steeped in pomp and circumstance, form and ritual, ornate regalia and colorful coats-of-arms, Pope Francis conveyed a near-irresistible power of humility and simplicity. In a society that is cynical about religious claims, the pope embodied a message of authenticity and transparency that appealed even to some of the most skeptical. Some described him as charismatic; others saw in him an affable meekness and unpretentiousness.
Pope Francis performed his formal duties in each setting with thoughtful and serious deliberation. But it was his interaction with people – young and old – that seemed to energize and delight him. His interactions with children, the disadvantaged, and the disabled, particularly, revealed his comfort in being in their presence and his joy in serving them. He claimed that in them he saw the face of Jesus. The overwhelming response of the crowds to Pope Francis was a striking revelation that for most people, love, piety, compassion and mercy trumps doctrine. These were also frequent themes in the pope’s speeches.
Throughout his visit, Pope Francis illustrated the universal appeal of a vision and mission to care for the poor, the dispossessed, and the marginalized. He shone the spotlight on the Christian’s calling to care for the most vulnerable. The call to the practice of social justice was a repeated theme, something Francis has been known to advocate for decades. He made numerous appeals for treating people with dignity, respect, and equality, and for people to contribute their efforts for the common good.
The pope, quietly and without much fanfare, gave witness to his respect for all people of all faiths. In recognition of the eve of Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the year for Jews, the pope did not schedule any public appointment on the evening he arrived in Washington, D.C. Then, in an unscripted moment during his address at St. Patrick’s Cathedral in New York on Thursday night, he wished Muslims a happy Eid, the Festival of Sacrifice, and offered sympathy for the hundreds of Hajj pilgrims who died in a stampede in Mecca. His invitational and winsome style appealed to people of all faiths and perhaps no faith.
Pope Francis gave masterful display to the truth that there are ways to effectively talk about divisive issues without alienating people who are on one or the other side of the issue. In his carefully-nuanced speech before the United States Congress on September 24, the pope addressed several issues such as immigration, the sanctity of life, and climate change, over which many in the country and in the Congress are divided in their opinions. Yet, he did it in a disarming manner that did not diminish those who didn’t agree with his positions. He made no stump speeches, demanding submission with the power of his arguments. Inclusivity and respect for all peoples were common themes in the pope’s presentations. When he talked about globalization, he specifically highlighted the danger of attempting to coerce uniformity among all people, cultures, and situations.
The pope did not signal any potential changes to doctrine or dogma in the Catholic Church. His interests, it seemed, was not to change the doctrines of the church but to change its focus. He made some passing appeals to “natural law” as the basis for moral truth and in support of “the natural difference between men and women, and absolute respect for life in all its states and dimensions.” This “moral law,” he claimed, is “written into human nature itself.” Although he appeared to give sincere recognition and appreciation for the role of women in the religious functions of the church, his complete silence regarding women being excluded from the Catholic priesthood through ordination did not go unnoticed.
A part of Pope Francis’ appeal has been his anti-institutional image. He has demonstrated an uncanny willingness to disregard rules and to challenge entrenched interests. Some Catholics wonder if Francis’ progressive views truly represent the Catholic faith. It is yet to be seen whether Francis’ popularity will translate into revival and reformation within the Roman Catholic Church. Or into increased church membership. Many are skeptical. In the real world, personalities tend to be more popular than institutions.
Despite the huge crowds and the massive media attention, the pope did not convey anything – either through words or witness – that wasn’t known before. The lessons he presented were not new or original. However, by saying what he said, and presenting himself as he did, Francis drew attention to the fact that the life and words of religious people and religious leaders have enormous power to change the world. Also that the qualities of humility, authenticity, simplicity, inclusivity, respect, dignity, love, and mercy are available to all of God’s children.
The Adventist Church has entered a period when we are not doing too well in some of the areas that Francis highlighted in his many speeches. In that sense, perhaps his messages were for us, too. I realize that some Adventists may not be able to look beyond the fact that the pope is Catholic. But for others, the pope may have presented a timely challenge to embody the values of Jesus, especially in regard to loving the least among us. For Adventist leaders at this particular time the message to stand up for human dignity, equality, inclusivity, and justice may be most appropriate. These are some things that Adventists can be challenged to do better in – even by a pope! Regardless of our impressions of Pope Francis, there is at least one way in which Adventists can respond to him. The pope concluded almost every public presentation with the request, “Please pray for me.” That’s something all Adventists can do! That’s my take!
Raj,
Once more I appreciate the thoughtfulness in your posting. You have given us much to think about.
What I find ultimately ironic in the Pope’s visit was how he encouraged his followers to minister the love of Jesus to others by doing the works Jesus while it seems many Adventists believe they’re doing the work of God when all they do is argue about prophecy and demand that people obey God’s laws. I don’t see more than a very small number of Adventists feeding the hungry, improving the lives of the poor, sheltering the homeless, visiting prisoners, encouraging the downtrodden or caring for the ill.
The deeper irony is that we Adventists talk loud about believing God, yet only a few actually believe His promise of empowerment to those who do as He commanded us to be doing so that hearts can be turned to knowing the God who loves us and they will want to be part of His kingdom.
What will it take for us to wake-up and start believing in the power of God so we’ll actually start doing the things Jesus told us to do? If the visit of a pope and his calls for his followers to do those works won’t wake us up, what will?
Although I will never meet personally either Pope Francis or the G.C. current president, Pope Francis has both spoken and shown by his actions the compassion toward the “outcast” of the church which has not been seen and reported by Pres. Wilson.
While neither Pope Francis nor Pres. Wilson have changed any doctrines, Francis love shines through; which cannot be seen with Pres. Wilson.
Pope….(leader of the smallest, leader of universal church and a JESUIT) No other leader fits that.
Compare him to Christ…..(His kingdom, the High Priest, JESUS)
His authority is greater than of Jesus he claim
It is not doing good(it may appear) but love and keep the commandments and teach others to do so.
That is not politically correct.
It is political correct to cause(if possible) all to wonder after the beast.
Even the very elect would be deceived. This article confirms the word of God.
The elect have eyesalve
Here is something it was forgot to mention. While Mr. Francis acted out as he really mean to believe the gosple, he is really not. While people really believe he is the impersonification of Jesus, he told people in his first presentacion(mass) that “the work of Jesus at the cross was a failure and the muslims, that are beheading christians are his brothers.” Hmmm,
Lets analized adventist, they are lukewarm!!! Let read Rev. 3:16 So, because you are lukewarm–neither hot nor cold–I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
That is what characterizes the biblical church. A people that struggles between being hot or cool. That makes them hypocrites right??? No, that makes them humans that struggle with there flesh and with wanting to do good. But the answer is not that “The cross was a failure” as the Mr Francis like to think so. It is that it easier to be good when you have an agenda, that to be good when you are wanting to get rid off your sinful nature, which is always in battle against good.
Not an excuse, a reality until you fully understanded Jesus Grace. That’s when you find out you are able to see purity in Christian faith inspite of their lukewarmness.
The question remain…are all those virtues real?
How does his humble look fairs with the fact that he still let others call him “Holy Father”?
How does his humble look fairs with the fact that Papal Rome is asking for the nations of the world to share their wealth, and yet Papal Rome is the richest institution in the world and so far continues as such…wouldn’t we like to see some example before asking others to empty their pockets?
How does such a “humble” man manage to convince almost the whole world to unite with him in the most incredible worldwide Agenda, where all the nations are giving up their “powers”(crowns), their national sovereignties and follow his recommendations…putting their crowns at the service of the UN Agenda 2030, accepting the “constitution” of the New World Order in which Papal Rome, not only is going to be the leader of a one world government (as the Pope declared himself to be), but is also to become the head of the One World Religion, the one recommended by this Pope being Ecumenic Catholism…
Doesn’t this smell, looks and taste like the actual description of the empire of Babylon the Great as described in Revelation 17, the Pope as the emperor?
Rev 17:13-14 These(THE KINGDOMS OF THE WORLD) have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast(PAPAL ROME). These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them:…
In which side does you want to be…in the side of the “humble” Pope…
You illustrate what is perhaps the ultimate contradiction. Yet there appears to be a considerable contrast in Francis as compared to many of his predecessors because he spent so much of his early ministry working at the personal level. It appears from his remarks that he has not forgotten what is most important in ministry: our one-to-one relationships sharing God’s love.
The power of God is both discovered and shared in one-on-one ministry. Pope Francis understands that, but few Adventists do because we focus so much effort on preaching sermons and arguing about theology. So we really shouldn’t be surprised at their effectiveness compared to our ineffectiveness.
Sdas are effective they don’t need to be in the limelight of the meadia. Great work is being done and the Holy Spirit are in attendance
Interesting note. Showing humbleness and nice words do not change the fact that this pope is a jesuit and came in the place of the chief of the inquisition (resignation of Benedict 16). Jesus said properly of religious leaders that are wolfs in the form of lambs. This can certainly apply to current pope. The matter of the fact is that a gentle , meek, humble pope, yet a jesuit, seems to be the best agenda from the enemy to unite the world against the true gospel, embodied in Revelation 7. What can we expect from the father of lies and his agents as the end draws near?
“Second, when I watched the pope on television this past week, I did not see a “Holy Father,” “His Holiness,” or the “Vicar of Christ”; the voice I heard was not the “voice of St. Peter.” Instead, I saw and heard a 78-year old Argentinian man – a “gentle man” – who, for most of his life, was known as Jorge Mario Bergoglio. The impressions I formed, therefore, are about a man who is the head of a 1.2 billion-member church and about how he presented himself to the masses who watched him.”
Your whole article tells us that you “saw, just what he wanted you to see.” And it is what many others “saw” that he hoped would be the image he wanted to project. Not just for himself personally, but for the church he stands for.
He does his job well. And more than a few are “buying” his agenda that is well suited to deceive the masses. As we view bible prophecy, we could ask, “What did you expect?” Did you think he would rant and rave about the need for everyone to bow to the Catholic church? Every politician fits his speech to appeal to his audience. We would hardly expect the Pope coming to America to do otherwise.
Bill,
I agree.
Beware of those who walk in sheep’s skins.
Amazing how everyone was so interested in the pope’s actions, or rather, words.
Testing
continue…
in which side do you want to be?
In the side of the “humble” Pope or in the side of Humble Jesus?
Seems to me, we are looking at appearances and missing the key points about the true nature of this Pope, the most deceitful of them all…because he is blinding people with his fake smile and kisses and personal idiosyncrasies, meanwhile accomplishing the most evil agenda the world will ever see…which is setting up his empire(the Empire of Babylon the Great), aka the New World Order…
and not a “peep” from SDAs, no a certain sound is heard…
Not many are sounding the alarm!
the watchmen in the watch-tower are sleeping…
Certainly you are not seeing the establishment of Babylon the Great by this Pope before our own very eyes, which is launching of the New World Order…all this escapes you. Yet what do you see, a smile, a kiss, a gentle and jolly bearing. One would even think that this Pope is a harmless Santa Claus…but he is not!!! He is the emperor of the New World Order, he himself declared to be that before the UN. His empire, the New World Order (One world government and one world religion) that He has verbally endorsed over and over again
It is brilliant, canny, the way this Pope is fooling the masses, with a cheap smile, a soft kiss and his driving of a “fiat”,
meanwhile the institution remains the same, as the most deadly institution initially in power during the Mid Ages, now becoming the smitten image of deception as “the…
“He is the emperor of the New World Order, he himself declared to be that before the UN.”
Nini, I hadn’t heard the pope declare himself to be emperor of the NWO. Is there a transcript you can refer to where he makes this bold assertion?
Patrick
If the pope is serving Satan as you say, why are you concerned about his power to deceive when you are promised all the power of Heaven in the Holy Spirit who wants to empower you to minister God’s love? Why are you concerned about the pope instead of finding the ministry God wants you doind?
And why would you contradict and oppose the bible which warns again and again of true believers being deceived by the devil and his followers?
So Jesus said, “If possible, he will deceive the very elect.” Matt. 24
This warning is repeated so many times by the apostles, we could wonder just what bible you read or claim to believe?
What ever “spirit” you seem to be so “filled” with, apparently does not have much use for the bible as demonstrated by the many posts you comment on about the various subjects on A-today.
You seem to have little interest in the bible and far more interest in your “spirit ethic” that ignores the bible and its doctrines and teaching. Your spirituality reflects the Catholic church and not the Protestant understanding of how to determine true Christanity.
But many seem to be impressed by the same spirituality you support which would eventually conclude we don’t need the bible at all, as long as we have “the spirit”. But Seventh-day Adventism by profession of faith, at least claims the Protestant spirituality and the bible as the determining factor to define true Christian spirituality.
Whether we come to all the right conclusions may be debatable. But at least some of us will not opt out for the spirituality you offer as a solution to various church problems and difficulties.
Because that is want God has call us to do, to call out people out of Babylon, I guess you didn’t know.
Kevin,
Unfortunately, “Calling people out of Babylon” appears to always refer to the Catholic church, for some. What if this “Babylon” refers to the desire, within all humans, to posses all material things on offer, which is covertness; and covertness, being idolatry? Take another look at Rev.18. Does it not mention “merchants and all forms of goods—gold, precious stones, pearls, linen, silk, cinnamon, incense, wine, oil, wheat, cattle, sheep, etc, and souls of men”? This, as we now know it, is consumerism. And it is driven by the desire of that “queen of heaven” within all humans who trade and buy goods. It is contrary to the perfect way of life before the God Who created the heavens and the earth.
Trying to connect Bible Prophecy with what is happening in the world at large could very well distract us from what is really happening within our own hearts. God is concerned with our hearts, and so should we.
Just another way of looking at it.
Yeah, call them out of Babylon into the lukewarm Laodicean remnant church that needs revival and reformation.
What is called truth is forever the same. No matter how hard the pope will try he cannot infuence the people of God. My advice is all true believers should look up to christ. My question is has the cathelic church change how they worship? If they want to tell us they are serving christ then they should bring back the sabbath from the first day of the week to the seventh day of the week, also lets see them remove idols from the church. True believers of this difficult hour should should look up to christ for perfec not pope. Matthew 5 ,48 1corin. 11:1
The Sabbath is Adventist’s sacred cow. Not love for others, not refusing to judge others, whether in the church or out.
Observance of Sabbath will not save anyone if they refuse to love others and cease judging. Christ summarized the Law: “Love others as yourself and fulfill the Law.” Following the Golden Rule covers all the Law.
Elaine, seems like you did a little “judging” on your own. I don’t object to that, but it might serve your cause better if you didn’t accuse others of judging, when you are doing the same thing.
Elaine,
If you can’t spend time with God alone, then how does the Love of God abide in you? Everyone speaks about “loving your neighbor”, but what about coming to the “full knowledge of Jesus Christ” so that we can Love Him? The Sabbath has become a curse for many, or rather, many are cursing it, but its true purpose has not changed, nor do many know its implications. The apostles met on the first day of the week, but what did they do on the Sabbath? Meeting with their fellow Christians on the first day of the week may have been for more reasons than fellowship, it would have included sharing what God has revealed to them, the day before. What do you think about that?
I actually wrote, concerning this very subject, in reply to Nini, in the article “Adventist Revelation Scholar Reflects on Pope’s Visit to the U.S.” September 30, 2015 at 6:00 pm, which touches on the issues affecting many Christians.
But, you many not be affected in that way, so it would not apply to you.
So, in response to your last sentence: How are we fulfilling the whole Law if we completely disregard God which is covered in the first 4 commandments?
Elaine, you should learn more about importance of the Sabbath, not for salvation, but as to the mark of true believers in the last days.
The Sabbath is the main clue that 99% of Christianity is deceived.
The most important beliefs in Adventism is the Fourth Commandment and the evils of the papacy and the future predictions they have given about it.
Elaine,
Incorporating Bible doctrine with false human doctrines leaves the reader, at the end, to reject both.
This is the power of so-called Christian books, which profess to be “God-inspired”. A toxic mix! Could that have influenced your rejection of Bible Truth in any way? Just asking.
I rejected Adventism after spending many hours and days in the NT which was written by, and for Christians, not Jews who rejected Christ.
Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles was the first to preach the message of Christianity and he was eminently clear that the Law (it ALWAYS means the written letters on stone) was given only to lead us to Christ, and now Christ has replaced the Law.
As Sabbath and circumcision were the most important of all Jewish doctrines and scrupulously adopted, they were never required of Christians.
Nor, was any day given to the Christians replacing the Jewish Sabbath. Those Christians who accept the seventh day as Sabbath got it directly from Judaism, along with other doctrines which are unique to only Adventists.
If I believed that Sabbath was important to my salvation (which I did for many years as a P.K.) I would still be observing it.
Those texts in the NT, including Colossians which Paul clearly writes, were given to Christians: “From now onward, NEVER let anyon else decide what you should eat or drink, or whether you are to observe ANNUAL festivals, New Moons, of a Sabbath day, These were only pale reflections of what was coming: the reality is Christ.
So no, it was NOT “so-called Christian books” that opened my eyes, but the plain reading of the NT which was written for Christians.
Where in the Bible did you find the importance of Sabbath observance for Christians and the dietary rules? Was it in the NT or the Hebrew…
Elaine, Let me repeat:
The Ten Commandments on stone tablets are outside; cannot be adhered to; will not work in a sinful heart; is contrary to us; convicts; condemns and provides no way of escape for those who are without Christ. But the Law is our “tutor to bring us to Christ”; Who fulfilled the Law with all its requirements on our behalf; so that through faith of Him we receive the Holy Spirit, through Whom the Love of God is poured into our hearts, fulfilling the Law with all Perfection. The Law of the letter, and the Law of the Spirit; they are one and the same, only in two different forms. One represents the Perfect Love of God; the other, the Spirit, brings to reality the Love of God into our hearts. To receive the Love of God we must believe in Jesus Christ our Savior and be baptized with the Holy Spirit. There is no other way.
“10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” Hebrews 8 10-12.
If we reject any of the Ten Commandments, which represent the perfect Love of God, then how does the Love of God abide in…
Continued.
“Where in the Bible did you find the importance of Sabbath observance for Christians and the dietary rules? Was it in the NT or the Hebrew…”
Christ fulfills the Law of God. If Christ abides in you, then why is that Law of the Spirit contrary to the Law of the Letter, which represents the Perfect Love of God? It makes no sense. If we negate the Law of the Letter by the Law of the Spirit, which are both from God, then how does the Love of God abide in us? Or better still, what spirit is really abiding in us? Tell me. Prove it to me, through the Scriptures, that what I am saying is contrary to the Scriptures. No, don’t waste your time, it would take days of study and too much Scripture quotes and still you would come to the same conclusion.
The Law which was nailed to the Cross by Jesus Christ is the one which needed to be fulfilled by Him, regarding sacrifices and priestly duties. The Ten Commandments represent the Perfect Love of God. Yes, according to the New Covenant, that Law is now in all true believers. It has become the Law of the Spirit of Christ in us (Hebrews 8 10-12.). Christ is our righteousness. We could never live according to His perfect Law of Love. Only through the Holy Spirit do we have the Love of God in us. Our human love is nothing compared to the Love of God. Love your enemy as yourself. If you have experience that, then you will know the Love of God. All this talk of love, love, love, means nothing.
Elaine,
I know you are not Jewish. But if you were Jewish, would the law of Moses, the Sabbath, circumcision require your observance?
We read in Acts: And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
Zealousness for the law, did not offend Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, at least when it was Jews being zealous themselves. Paul apparently circumcised Timothy, a Jew and a Christian, by his own hand.
You say, ” …the NT which was written by, and for Christians, not Jews who rejected Christ.” All Jews did not reject Christ and there is nothing to indicate Jews were an excluded audience for the NT writers. Far from it, most of the writers were Jews and deeply learned in Jewish thought and practice. Many, if not most, of the early converts were either Jewish themselves or ‘Sebomenoi’ believers in the God of Israel, but not converts to Judaism.
I think you have an unhistorical understanding of the early church and the New Testament. Please correct me if I’m mistaken.
There are additional texts in Acts such as these:
When the Pharisees objected that the new non Jewish believers were uncircumcised and they said “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.”(The entire Law given Moses at Sinai is frequently referred to in both Testaments as either “Moses” or the Law.
Then Peter stood up and said:
“Why do you put GOd to the test by placing upon the necks of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?”
That the Sabbath was a burden is well illustrated with the accusations against Jesus of breaking the Sabbath; it had become a burden in scrupulous observance.
This letter by the apostles: “It seemed good to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: that you should abstain from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If you keep your lives free from such things, you will do well.”
In other letters from Paul, all the civil laws from the Decalogue are mentioned, but never the Fourth.
These former pagans and idol worshipers did not know how to observe Sabbath, which according to the Law, was much more than such mere attendance, but very strict rules found in the Law of Moses. Had it been essential to the pagan Christians, why did neither Paul nor any of the apostles never include Sabbath observance in any of their letters and in preaching to the former Gentiles he and they never mentioned Sabbath?
William, Elaine Nelson has been posting error on these boards for the ~last 15 years. People lionizing her affirms their own ignorance, not any great insight she offers.
A lot of the stuff she writes is so easily disproved, it’s obvious she has not done any real study to certify her thoughts on various subjects. Her views on the law are completely outdated, yet she has been posting the same nonsense for years. She’s been informed. Her ignorance seems willful.
Any one with a concordance can easily find all the uses of “law” in the NT.
It refers not only to the Decalogue or Torah but, depending on context, sometimes to the entire OT.
Jesus referred to Psalms as law (John 10:34; 15:25)
Paul referred to Isaiah as law (1Cor. 14:21)
Paul also referred to Psalms as law (Rom. 3: 10-19)
Galatians 4:21-30 quotes both Genesis and Isaiah and refers to them as law and plainly says scripture is law.
People should reject Adventism but for the right reasons.
William, Elaine Nelson has been posting error on these boards for the ~last 15 years. People lionizing her affirm their own ignorance, not any great insight she offers.
A lot of the stuff she writes is so easily disproved, it’s obvious she has not done any real study to certify her thoughts on various subjects. Her views on the law are completely outdated, yet she has been posting the same nonsense for years. She’s been informed. Her ignorance seems willful.
Any one with a concordance can easily find all the uses of “law” in the NT.
It refers not only to the Decalogue or Torah but, depending on context, sometimes to the entire OT.
Jesus referred to Psalms as law (John 10:34; 15:25)
Paul referred to Isaiah as law (1Cor. 14:21)
Paul also referred to Psalms as law (Rom. 3: 10-19)
Galatians 4:21-30 quotes both Genesis and Isaiah and refers to them as law and plainly says scripture is law.
People should reject Adventism but for the right reasons.
Elaine has been on a Sabbath abrogation campaign/fixation for years. I would suggest that you devote your energies elsewhere.
Elaine,
The answer to your question is in front of you: “It seemed good to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: that you should abstain from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If you keep your lives free from such things, you will do well.” “to lay upon you no greater burden than…”? It appears they were in fact laying upon them some sort of burden. What can be regarded as a burden? Well, living by the Perfect Law of God, if you do not have the fullness of Christ dwelling in you. It was the beginning of these new convert’s journey in realizing their dependence on Christ, Who fulfills the Law with all Perfection within all believers.
And yet, what about those thousands of believing Jews in Jerusalem “all zealous for the law”? Didn’t the early church and Paul see a continuing physical difference between Jew and Gentile, even as they came to realize the reconciliation Jesus Christ wrought between God and Man was equally open to all who believed?
Why else would Paul circumcise Timothy, but resist the circumcision of Titus? Why does Paul accede to evidencing to the Jews he is not teaching the Jews to abandon the law of Moses in the diaspora? Paul is not Mr. Get Along Go Along. If he thought the Jews should abandon Moses he would have surely said so.
The church faced a question: How should the new Gentile believers be grafted into Israel? Paul and the Judaizers represent two different ideas as to how. What is not represented in the NT is this assumption that the law of Moses lost all authority for the Jews. That is why Paul circumcised Timothy with his own hands. Timothy ought to be circumcised. He was a Jew.
Elaine, i think i can help you understand what paul said in colossian 2 :16. Please take this contact and connect me on whatsapp, i will send you messages. +233542658348.
Emma, I appreciate your thoughtfulness. If you are able to send me something new; something I haven’t seen in my 91 years as an Adventist with a SdA pastor-father, I will read it. I also attended Adventist schools through the first year of college, followed by public and other colleges to receiving my master’s degree; writing a thesis on the the first 400 years of Christianity.
Anything new I will be happy to read an comment on. Can’t you furnish a link to find this? I do not have easy use of apps.
Pastor Raj,
I love how quickly some saints miss the forest for the trees. And make no mistake, there is judgment in my comments. Judgment and disgust. Nice going people on missing the entire summation of his excellent and thoughtful article. William and Elaine seemed to get it, so why not the rest?
No where in his article did I detect Raj recommending that any of you give up your precious Sabbath or join up with the RC church. In a much more genteel manner than I now take, he wrote of the pope’s visit and approach as an example of what he, Francis, is doing to reach people without compromising his church’s doctrines or morals.
Relax people, no one is going to take your “blanky”(Sabbath)away from you and if you drop your “passy”(Adventist interpretation of prophecy)we will happily pick it up and dust if off and shove it back into your gobs, stopping to sooth and dry up tears in the process. But while holding on to both with white-knuckled ferocity, maybe read the summation of his “opinion” article again, and see in it what it is, a gentle rebuke to Adventists who wrap their cloaks tightly about themselves and pass by on the other side, while this Samaritan Pope gets down and ministers to human need.
The fear of being seduced by lying powers of evil were so intense in my early life with the Adventist Church, that it was not permitted under any circumstances to accept anything the Pope or his people did as in any way legitimately good.
It was not until later in life that we learned the extreme goodness of many Catholic workers and clergy, who were willing (and indeed did) give their lives for the sick, the poverty-stricken, the uneducated, the despondent. There were elements of the Catholic system of social work that were totally missing in Adventist ministries, and we found a way to work things out cooperatively with the Catholics. And no, these were not Jesuits!
Ellen White several times writes that we should treat all people as if they are honest and true. Conversely, in the matter of the Pope, we have been taught that he is totally sold out to Satan and that there is absolutely no goodness in him.
I think this is a great dialogue we are conducting here. I am in no danger of trading in my Adventist visa to the Kingdom for a Jesuit one. But we do all call ourselves Christians, and much that we do is legitimately because of our regard and love for Jesus.
I believe there are millions in the Catholic Church still wrestling with Truth at many levels. Perhaps the Pope himself is seeking and absorbing New Light in his endeavors to emulate the ways of Christ. I don’t know, but let’s not entirely rule it out. Or maybe shunning the Catholics is the best policy,…
“Perhaps the Pope himself is seeking and absorbing New Light in his endeavors to emulate the ways of Christ.”
The Pope is, in my view, very shrewd and all too many have swallowed the bait.
Terry Edwards,
“And make no mistake, there is judgment in my comments. Judgment and disgust.”
“Nice going” my friend. I get annoyed sometimes too. “Shoving it back into your gobs” is not an approach I would take, though.
I see by your words that you are a “God-hater”?
Mr. Attiken
There is no denying that Pope Francis is doing good things for the global community. He has visited with the poor and the sick, he seems to encourage love and acceptance for all and appears to fight for justice. However, we must also remember that Pope Francis is a Jesuit. He was trained in the art of deception; duplicity is a part of his job description. You wrote that when the pope came you did not see the “Vicar of Christ” or “His Holiness”- well, you and I must have seen two different people. I saw hundreds of thousands of people crowding the streets to get a glimpse of him. I saw millions watching him on television and the Internet. The whole world wondered after him. I believe that the pope’s visit was a precursor to the coming of the Antichrist, when the devil will try to pass himself off as Jesus Christ. He will do the same things that the pope did, and then some. If you were deceived by the pope’s visit now, how can you resist the deception of the master of evil himself? Just something to think about.
“However, we must also remember that Pope Francis is a Jesuit. He was trained in the art of deception; duplicity is a part of his job description.”
You are absolutely correct.
I thought he was a Franciscan!
Pastor Raj,
Once again, you hit a “Grand Slam”. Thank you!
I would like to recommend “Back to the Melchizedek Future”- a study of the priesthood of all believers. The original Torah given in Ex. 19-24 is the covenant of the Melchizedek priesthood given before the sin of the golden calf. After the sin of the golden calf the Levitical system was put in place until Messiah would come.
Hebrews makes it clear that we are all priests & kings under the order of Melchizedek. This study clears up all the petty arguments in the New Testament & seeming inconsistencies of Paul. If everyone understood the info in this study we would all be on the same page.
From what I am reading from much of the above comments, no Catholic can be sincere or good. Any obvious good deed or thought of their’s is interpreted as a trick to deceive, or a trap to catch one for destruction. Is this wisdom unto salvation? Who listens to God, and whom does the Spirit guide?
The lessons I take from the pope is what not to do. With Islam murdering christians throughout the world and Obama radicalizing the middle east, and all the pope has to talk about is climate change and immigration, shame on him. He should be calling for protection for the persecuted christians and the cessation of our support of groups like the muslim brotherhood and the so called freedom fighters (isis) and the like. Assad in Syria has given Christians protection and preserved ancient churches that have been there over a thousand years. With Obama’s help those churches are being destroyed before our eyes. If Obama has his way Assad will be rousted from his place and one of our so called democratic governments (radical islam) will take over and there won’t be a church there any longer. I say shame on the pope. Shame, Shame, Shame.
In the 1840s God shed new light of His character from an unlikely woman the Millerites would listen to, such as 17 year old Ellen White. I say today, God continually reveals the Church’s sick conditions. For we who call out “beware the Catholics”, can God easily switch the roles that might find us wanting right now? Or is He bound and confined to play out prophecy He Himself authored? I believe God is big enough to write and re-write His sacred texts, conditional to transform our hate to a loving heart. All of us need to monitor closely what we call sin and what we really are hating.
I agree with Raj’s assessment of the Pope’s humble and loving personality, which has been a part of his life long before coming to be pope.I believe he is much closer to following Jesus’ life, than many Adventists are.
If he will show his true colors, the chosen and even the very elect wont be deceived or trapped.This is pope’s way to twist the hearts of the people even the children of God. Don’t be fooled brethren by the mother of harlots…Jesus is even at the door!
Elaine,
I don’t have time to read all this but you made in the beginning a false assumption: “I {spent] many hours and days in the NT which was written by, and for Christians, not Jews who rejected Christ.”
The NT was NOT written by or for Christians. Jesus was a Jew, and He believed as the Jews of His era. The first believers were all Jews. Even the book of Revelation was written for Jews, and they all knew what the various symbols meant.
I have had this reinforced by a recent lecture series I attended given by a Catholic priest, college teacher, and student of the Bible. It was called “The Jewishness of Jesus.” He emphasized that the churches of today and Jewish beliefs are generally nothing like that of the first century church. There was no Christian church then as today; except for the temple in Jerusalem they met in local structures (synagogues came later).
The lecturer said that the early church later fell prey to Roman and Greek worldviews that infiltrated their belief system, and after Constantine became popular. Early church beliefs, in fact, sound much like the basics of the Adventist church today. This honest Catholic priest believes as the early church while still remaining a Catholic.
The Four Gospels were written long after there were non-Jewish Christians. At the time of Pentecost there were people of many nations who received the Holy Spirit. The “first” Christians received the Holy Spirit at the same time, and while the Jewish Christians continued to follow much of their rituals, they were never given to the Christians who were former pagans. This was before Paul was converted and wrote his letters to Christians. Paul wrote many years before the Gospels and his teachings were directed to Christians who were not Jewish.
The Synoptic Gospel were written by FORMER Jews as they all accepted Jesus while the Jews did not. Jewish Christians DID accept Jesus. Jesus wrote none of the Gospels, but men wrote ABOUT Jesus and when they wrote, there were many Christians from many parts of the Mediterranean.
The Jewish Christians remained in Jerusalem with Peter and James as leaders, while Paul and Barnabas went to the Gentiles.
When the Gospels were written, no earlier than 70 A.D., all the Jews fled to escape and the destruction of the temple left them destitute and the Jewish-Christian church is lost to history. By that time, Christianity grew with the Gentile believers.
Revelation and the Book of Hebrews were written for Jews, but John, the writer of Revelation, not only was a Christian, but wrote of Christ as being equal to God; a blasphemy for any Jew.
Hebrews explains the meaning of the symbols of the .Jewish sacrificial system, now…
Elaine,
You are separating Jews and Christians. Jesus never started a new religion. Christians were a Jewish sect for a long time until they began to take on pagan practices in order to be separated from the hated Jews. This is historical fact. You can reinterpret it all you want, but that does not make it correct.
I for one want the religion of Jesus. Only the circumcision aspect changed after a meeting of the Jerusalem council. I can’t imagine a change in the commandment to have made less an impact.
If you believe Jesus to be God incarnate, then when He said keep my commandments they had to have been from old since He wrote them. They were His commandments.
I trust you read the book review I did a couple of weeks ago on a book by N.T. Wright. Much of what goes for biblical scholarship today is nonsense.
Babylon the Great. Please reread Rev. Chapters 17 & 18.
Several times in these blogs I’ve made the statement “Once a Jesuit, always a Jesuit”. Wish it were not so, as I could really appreciate a “world figure” as is Pope Francis. He has presented a façade that belies the vows he took to be a Jesuit. He has travelled the world blessing and displaying love and concern every moment, just as Jesus did. As a result the world is wondering after this man, (the BEAST), the VICAR of CHRIST, (a man) who loves and forgives sins. This man, Pope Francis, is I believe, a “false prophet). He has been trained for such a time as this. He has inaugurated in the “highest world organization”, the demand for a “one world solution to of all things “GLOBAL WARMING”, “CLIMATE CONTROL”, WHICH IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF “GOD”, HIMSELF, TO BE ADMINISTERED BY THE UNITED NATIONS. This is no small task for the U.N., which already has the agenda and plans to carry out this mandate. It entails giving orders to every national government, as to methods, to order the lifestyle and mandatory duties of every man, woman child. They are using
the “CLIMATE CONTROL” as the reason to implement “ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT”.>>>>>CONTINUED>>>
This Pope Francis, until recently, was considered to have
a cold, distant, inverse personality. Just the opposite of that displayed since becoming Pope. The deception is almost enough to deceive the elect of Jesus Christ. Only because most SDA’s have studied scripture and prophecies
have we been forewarned of this happening. Fasten your seatbelts Folks. Have you seen the Popes photos and videos of him with Pres. Obama?? In almost everyone of them, Obama appears as the superior of the two????
I believe that Barack Hussein Obama, who came from nowhere, with no meaningful political expertise, to be the President of the mightiest nation on Earth, just as now, Pope Francis has ascended to the highest religious dictatorship in the world, supposedly unknown to the world as was Obama. And together they are both Socialists, who have great power in the UNITED NATIONS, which come December 2015, will meet in Paris to announce their AGENDA for Climate Control. i believe Obama to be a
candidate as a Antichrist, as he exudes power over the Pope. Obama has admitted being of the Muslim faith on nationwide television with George Stepanopolis. On occasion of the Pope addressing the Cardinals,in St. Peters, a vocal solo was performed praising King Lucifer.
According to Malachi Martin, a former Jesuit high official in the Vatican, murdered in the 1990’s, stated that “black mass” honoring Lucifer was often performed by many Cardinals in St. Peters and elsewhere.
Earl, I am an alumnus of a wonderful Jesuit University and regularly receive their news magazine. They have been instrumental in aiding the workers in Central and South America to obtain decent living wages and conditions that had prevailed since colonialism. They continue to provide help to those in need around the world, something Adventists are doing on a much smaller scale.
Yes, they were the ones involved in the Inquisition; and the Catholic church also instigated the Crusades. The long history of an institution is a record few denominations can match, but Luther and the Calvinists were also guilty of crimes: “Iconoclastic” was a term used widely for Lutherans who destroyed many beautiful sculptures and stained glass windows in cathedrals, akin to what ISIS has been destroying in their countries.
Just as there are many former members of the RCC as well as drunkards and other unsavory characters who have become Christians and changed their lives, why not give Pope Francis and opportunity before judging him to demonstrate his character as well? He has shown Christ’s love and compassion to the underdogs in a manner not seen by our current G.C. president.
As the Protestant churches have been seeking the favor of the world, false charity has blinded their eyes. They do not see but that it is right to believe good of all evil, and as the inevitable result they will finally believe evil of all good. Instead of standing in defense of the faith once delivered to the saints, they are now, as it were, apologizing to Rome for their uncharitable opinion of her, begging pardon for their bigotry. – {GC 571.4}
You know I never read or hear about Jorge Bergoglio talking about Jesus Christ. His predecessor, Joseph Ratzinger, talked about Jesus Christ all the time. Ratizinger wrote several books about Christ while he was the Bishop of Rome.
Bergoglio’s outward, on-display, humility is actually quite the contrast to the humility of Joseph Ratzinger who resigned his office and retired to pray for us. Not many men have the humility to resign an office of such distinction that is expected to be held until death.
Bergoglio did tweet: The root of all evil is social inequality I’d guess “Equality” might be Bergoglio’s ‘god’.
Why is God needed to judge humans when many Adventists are so quick-to-judgment? Immediately, a pope becomes the antichrist.
No. when John wrote his Revelation, Domitian, Nero, and other secular Roman rulers were the epitome of the antichrist. The current pope is demonstrating love in action, while many Adventists demonstrate an automatic reflex to label him as the antichrist. It is the Adventist’s problem brought about by their interpretations which prevent them from seeing good because of their automatic repulsion of anything Catholic, forgetting that they would not be a Christian today had not the Catholic church preserved the Bible and from which many of SdA doctrines were copied, and including the Catholic ecclesiastical structure of the church.
I think the headlines around the world should suffice:
Pope Francis leaves his mark on Cuba – Al Jazeera
Pope leaves his mark on America – Ottawa Citizen
Pope leaves mark on America -The Province, Vancouver, Canada
Pope Francis leaves his mark at Madison Square Garden
Pope Francis makes his mark on Washington – MSNBC
Pope Francis’ speech leaves a deep personal mark on members of Congress – romereports.com
Pope Francesco leaves his mark on Twitter – AlmavivA
Pope Francis Leaves a Mark in Lampedusa – iitaly.org
Not convinced yet? Stay tuned.
But Pete, did any of those who observed Pope Francis making/leaving his ‘mark’ in all those places happen to identify what that mark is? Did they all describe that mark as beastly? No, didn’t think so.
The only thing correct about this article is that the Adventist system adopted structure like the Catholic system they kept the bible from the people thus the dark ages I hope this person is a catholic if not needs to become one very poor research indeed
I am commenting specifically on nelsons reply
Raj you are such a poor deceived man I suppose you know nothing of operation condor and this current popes role in that and the part he played thousands of people’s deaths bet the media doesn’t bring that up or his comments on how the Catholic Church should baptize aliens and I do mean space aliens just because someone does good things and acts humble doesn’t make them so what they say and do should be condistent looks like this author drank the look aid how pathetic this author is this this is one reason why I’m not part of the Adventist corporation they have sold out like everyone else
Raj,
Always good to hear your opinion-so clear and thoughtful. I’m so blessed to be part of a little group who has learned from you and have taken to heart the call of Jesus to look after God’s children-all of them. We start yet another “Healthy cooking class” this week with 73 signed up-not one an SDA. That’s more than 2-3x our church attendance! We will be busy! We have just applied to the Cleveland Food Bank–don’t have any idea how we’re going to fit that into our facility but have learned that God will provide a way! Thank you for helping us keep our eye on the basics–the rest somehow takes care of itself. When people focus on details, they seem to lose the basics! God bless you and do pray for us!
Let none deceive themselves. The popery that protestants are now so ready to embrace and honor is the same that ruled the world in the days of the reformation, when men of God stood up at the peril of their lives to expose her iniquity. She possesse the same pride and arrogant assumption that lorded it over kings and princes, and claimed the prerogatives of God. Gc, 341
Raj, let me tell you that this Adventist denomination was raised up to preach the angels message. Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments. We can’t talk about love if we don’t keep God’s commandments. Go and read the Bible and Great Controversy again then you will understand what time we are in and how pope francis is fulfilling the prophecy. This is the time to present the truth and let people see where we are according to God’s word. Pope Francis visit to America was just fulfilling the prophecy. Wake up and start preaching three angels message.
Daina,
Have you ever sat down and read what Jesus told the disciples in the Upper Room? We love to extract a single verse from it and claim that He was telling them to teach people to obey the Ten Commandments with particular focus on the Fourth when that is NOT what he was talking about. His emphasis to them was on continuing the ministry He had been doing by loving each other, performing miracles that demonstrated the love of God and calling people to be part of His kingdom. Five times in that discourse he gives them commands to obey and in all five He was talking about loving others and continuing the same ministry. Nowhere in there did He speak about the Ten Commandments. So, Jesus’ most urgent priority for His disciples was for them to continue doing all the works of love He wanted them to be doing, don’t you think we should be doing those things first and foremost?
William, I don’t think that there is any disagreement from anybody that we should show and preach the love of God by showing acts of kindness to the downtrodden and helpless. However, with all due respect, this thread (or discussion) is not about the love of God but about Pope Francis and essentially whether he is sincere loving Christian or a wolf in sheeps clothing. Now all those who believe the former, you seem to pat them on the back and bravo. However, those who believe the latter, you seem to hit them over the head with “you should be talking about God’s love”. Come on mate, cut them some slack, we’re having a robust discussion here. Didn’t Jesus (who everyday practised God’s love) expose the hypocrisy of the Pharisees and if Mr Francis is a hypocrite shouldn’t that also be exposed while at the same time doing God’s love.
Peter,
I have no disagreement about the pope being the proverbial “wolf in sheep’s clothing.” My point of complaint is with those who think spending all their time talking about the Pope is spreading the gospel and “doing God’s work” when they’re doing none of the things Jesus told us to be doing and distracting others away from doing those things. Can you show me even one person who is always talking about the Pope who is bringing people into the church? I can’t name one. But I can show you plenty of people who are busy bringing people into the church who give the Pope little more than passing attention.
Something I find absolutely amazing is how aware a person becomes about the differences between good and evil when they fall in love with Jesus. I don’t have to give them a lesson about the evils of the Pope because they start telling me about all the things the Holy Spirit has been showing them.
So, I’m sorry, but no slack from me. God told us to be aware of the works of evil, not so obsessed with them that we become spiritually impotent.
William please, you are being very judgemental. I haven’t read any comment on this post that is advocating that we should spend all our time speaking about the pope.
Ah, by the way this discussion is about the pope. Maybe you should chastise Pr Raj for starting this post an tell him to next time just start posts about the love of God, or maybe you should start one.
Peter,
Maybe you need to spend more time here to see how obsessed some people are with the pope and the fulfillment of prophecy, but you will never see wasting a keystroke about the power of God and ministry for Him. If it weren’t for their focus on prophecy about the pope, I wonder how much spiritual focus some of them would have in their life.
If I’m not mistaken, more than one person has commented that he/she isn’t aware that Adventists are feeding the hungry. I’m not sure exactly what that means.
Adventists have been doing Dorcas (aka community service) work since I was a boy. Adventists have done much to teach people–especially in “third world” nations how to improve their agricultural methods. I was personally acquainted with Jacob Mittleider, an Adventist who probably did more to help people increase food production–including production of garden truck in small family gardens–than anyone else in the 20th century.
When I have helped with disaster relief, Mennonites and adherents of the Roman Church have been there. Some people say that Mennonites, SdAs and adherents of the Roman Church are “always” there when there is disaster relief to be done.
I have also known Adventists whose philanthropy–including giving people food–was one-on-one and without fanfare. So no, you probably didn’t know about those philanthropists.
At the same time, I have talked with members of the Roman Church who also didn’t want their good deeds to be published–something about not letting the left hand know what the right hand is doing.
There are true Christians in all of the ostensibly Christian denominations, the Roman Church (and the SdA organization) not excepted.
Roger,
The claims of what is being done typically are a multiple of reality because many like to take credit for what others are doing simply on the basis of being fellow Adventists. However, in his parable describing the separation of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25, Jesus makes it very clear that we cannot claim the deeds of another as credit for ourselves because he praises those who actually did the good works while condemning those who claimed to have done them.
The U.N. 2030 Agenda, which has more recently been referred as “A NEW UNIVERSAL AGENDA FOR HUMANITY”, was signed onto by most nations, willingly. There are 17 items in the Agenda, as follows:
1.One world digital currency. Cashless Society.
2.Implement global GMO’S. Combat Hunger.
3.Enforce Vaccinations, Codex Alimentaries. Health.
4.Education. (brain washing??).
5.Population Control, Enforced Family Planning.
6.Water
7.Energy
8.Full Employment
9.Infrastructure
10.Reduce Inequality, between countries. (all common
people, slaves??).
11.Make all communities safe. (total police state??)
12.Ensure consumption.
13.Climate Control.
14.Conserve the use of the seas and oceans.
15.Protect,restore and promote Earth ECO SYSTEMS, FORESTS.
16.Promote peaceful&inclusive societies. Justice for all.
17.Strengthen & Revitalize Global Partnerships.
Implementation by & for all nations to sign on willingly.
How very naïve and dangerous. This Agenda to be completed by 2030. Most items to begin immediately, after signoff in
December in the Paris meetings.
You can verify this information by Google Re: AGENDA 2030. Hold your breath folks, One world order coming up.
Earl,
Interesting.
The list of urgent attention “U.N. Agenda” looks like “control the people” but really resembles a desperate attempt by those “officials” to secure a permanent, livable environment for themselves. Now, whose actually fearing? I think the “officials” of the “one world order” dictatorship.
Anyway, the “heavens and the earth will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up”. 2 Pet. 3:10.
Not sure why you are overly-worried about these ‘motherhood’ goals, Earl. A healthier society with less crime and less likelihood of schoolroom massacres can’t be all bad, can it? And there will be no tax evasion. All will contribute more or less fairly. And doesn’t Paul say, respect the government, it is put there by God? One will still have to keep one’s awareness of the difference between things spiritual and things of this world, and all will ok.
Because at some point, as Daniel shows, this material realm will cease to exist. ‘and so shall we ever be with the Lord.’
Serge, your answer to “one World Government” as
Motherhood is indicative of the global complacency on an issue that threatens the total removal of freedom to live your life according to your desire. Mankind, FREEDOM IS PASSE GLOBALLY, and you don’t even realize it, yet. The global nations have ASSIGNED all management of Earth OVER to the UNITED NATIONS, which are controlled by the Global money moguls and wealthy Environmentalists, effective January 1, 2016. The world of fiat money was planned by the Global Banks, as they are holding all the paper on Trillions of $$ of debt paper, of which the Nations can’t pay the interest due, so the Moguls are taking over and the United Nations is their vehicle, of whom they also own. There will be wholesale annihilation of the world’s unequal people, this is how they will meet the goal of inequality of Agenda #10 “Reduce inequality within & among nations”.
Also the statement “We are committed to the prevention & treatment of NON-COMMUNICABLE DISEASES, INCLUDING BEHAVIOURAL, DEVELOPMENTAL AND NEUROLOGICAL DISORDERS, which constitute a major challenge for sustainable development. What the hell does this mean??????? Guess?? From a godless hierarchy that worships at the altar of “MONEY”. WAKE UP, WAKE UP, it’s a fait
accompli, and the world just continued on marrying and giving in marriage, with no understanding of the hellish storm onslaught.
Earl,
You wrote: “it’s a fait accompli, and the world just continued on marrying and giving in marriage, with no understanding of the hellish storm onslaught.”
In reference to my quote of 2 Pet.3:10, Is that what you meant by the “hellish storm onslaught”. If so, then I look forward to that day, because that’s in God’s control and His final act of rescuing those waiting for Him. Let me quote the whole passage, for clarity:
“10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.” 2 Pet. 3:10-13
If man were in control, God help us all, but man is only a puppet. In the end all will give Glory to the Omnipotent Lord God and Savior-Jesus Christ.
The question is: Are we ready for that Day?
GOD HELP US. While we were sleeping the enemy of GOD enslaved us all.
Paranoia will annoy ya.
There will probably be no election for POTUS in 2016. The current President will be very busy declaring Martial Law
to put down the rebellion when people wake up to the fact they’ve been sold into slavery. Unless this POTUS is IMPEACHED, GAME OVER.
Earl, you failed to show at my Glacier View seminar/retreat for Analysis and Purging of Conspiracy Theories! Next time, for sure, OK?
Larry, I wouldn’t dare walk within 100 miles of where one of the best was unfairly told to take a walk out of the SDA future. His Righteousness by Faith series was the best.
BTW Larry, have you read the United Nations manifesto Agenda 2030 ON Google??
Since you reject the my preferred location for a timeout, I’m moving the next one to the Fields of Ambrosia. It has a different legacy, is a venue far, far away, without the regrettable history (by your estimation)! Will alert you to date and time!!!
I just scanned (careful perusing would induce suicide by ennui) the Agenda 2030 and it must have been written by Alice while she was in the drug infected rabbit hole of Wonderland. It would negate the need for heaven, establish an earthly paradise, and arrive at its goals with nothing but the power of wishful thinking. Utopian proposals are as vacuous as the pointy heads who devise them. The steps from dream to realization require an infinite number of allies and perfectly aligned stars, in other words, the enigma of an already perfect world.
So I see not a scintilla of threat to humanity in this “manifesto.” Show me something really fearful with at least a tiny possibility of implementation. Earl! I’m anticipating the joy of being properly fearful! I’m counting on you!
Ahhh, the Fields of Ambrosia, Ahhh, i am eagerly anticipating the moment of arrival. Ahhh, you will inform me as soon as a vacancy appears, won’t you Larry?? Ahhh,
the Fields of Ambrosia, wooooooooo.
For many Adventists, any mention of the Pope regardless of who is presently holding that title, instantly introduces into their thoughts and tongues: Jesuit, Antichrist, mark of the beast, Sunday laws, and Adventists’ persecuted by the RCC.
The belief that history always repeats itself disregards the fact that the Catholic church has not persecuted anyone in 500 years
Adventists often refer to the OT, rather than the NT which contains the Gospel and instructions for Christians, but rather return to the rules given the Israelites in the Torah as the Adventists’ guide.
This ignores the NT which clearly states that Christ has replaced the Law. Why return to the past when Christ is the light for Christians today?
Elaine,
Your use of the phrase, “our current G.C. president”, would seem to indicate that you are acquainted with how many members of our denomination explain the relationship between “the law” and the gospel. (If not, let me know and I’ll try to explain it.)
In the light of your understanding of that, the following two paragraphs seem strange indeed:
“Adventists often refer to the OT, rather than the NT which contains the Gospel and instructions for Christians, but rather return to the rules given the Israelites in the Torah as the Adventists’ guide.
“This ignores the NT which clearly states that Christ has replaced the Law. Why return to the past when Christ is the light for Christians today?”
While there certainly is a distinction between the moral and the ceremonial “law”, I don’t make the arbitrary distinction some SdAs do. That arbitrary distinction is a remnant of a doctrine of the Roman Church, namely, that the Chruch replaced Israel as the object of the Lord’s supreme regard.
Ellen White once wrote that SdA preachers were preaching the law, the law, the law until their sermons had become as dry as the hills of Gilboa.
I share your concern that SdAs (Some? Most?) are placing more emphasis on the law than on the gospel but the gospel doesn’t remove one jot or one tittle of the law. The gospel (the good news) is that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone.
When the “Law” is found in the Bible it is always singular; never a division of moral and ceremonial. This came much later in the Christian church and is not a biblical term.
More properly, the Decalogue has two divisions: one’s duty to God and duty to fellow man; sometimes known as theological laws and civil laws. Civil laws were in all societies and predated the Decalogue. Some cultures, if not most had laws based on their god.
Often the Decalogue is called the “moral” law, but does anyone believe that not obeying the first four becomes “immoral”? But we certainly would say that about the last six.
What Law was given to the Jews UNTIL Christ came? Only the Levitical laws? Is that what the NT writers claim? Is the Decalogue more perfect than Christ’s sacrifice and his example through teaching? He summarized the entire Law by saying: Love God and your neighbor and thus fulfill the Law. The Decalogue never mentions love to neighbors, only prohibitive actions.
If there was no change between Judaism and Christianity, why did the writers like Paul and the book written to the Hebrews clearly say that there was a change?
One can’t locate in Christ’s teachings an emphasis on law. So fixation on obedience in Adventism isn’t really based on his teachings, therefore isn’t Christian. Rather it is modified version of Judaism. Its historical commitment to obedience at the expense of the Gospel is remarkable and traceable by its historical inability to ever successfully be Gospel centric. You can only celebrate one or the other. Apologists attempt wild circumlocutions and unbelievable mental gymnastics to wed the two in an impossible mixed marriage of hope (Love) and failure (Law).
The Gospel (Jesus) doesn’t care about law, but about harmony, people with each other and with God through the experience of love. It’s a here and now solution to human behavior, salvation not a concern. Preparation for heaven didn’t seem to concern Jesus as far as can be ascertained by his purported verbal legacy. He accepted death as a normal part of life, even his own.
Sorry theologicrats, by the condition of its inbred DNA Adventism is stuck on law and can never be gospel oriented. In one hundred forty years the phony marriage of law and Gospel has never been consummated. An honorable divorce is in order.
My version of what Elaine said!
The only words I feel that are needed here are these: Do not underestimate the power and intellect of Satan. Even our most “elect” will be deceived. Of course you think the Pope did an outstanding job do you really think Satan is dumb enough to make it that blatant and easy to see. He is a deceiver, mixing truth with unjust. Be steadfast, do not be deceived. Adventist will not be the only ones saved by any means and the message is worldwide to serve and love. Don’t be fooled that Satan will not use that to his advantage.
The fear mongering and irrationality in some of the above comments is mind boggling. Whatever the pope says or does is being interpreted as a sign of evil. He doesn’t have a chance whatsoever to do anything right or noteworthy.
Of course, he is a Jesuit, well trained, clever … and very interested in people rather than focussed on dogmatics (be sure he knows his dogmatics). I understood the author to say, it is here – in the congruent people orientation – that we might learn.
Let’s put into very Adventist terms: The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Not being right is most important, but doing right. Not by correct interpretations of Bible and current affair, but by our love we will be known to be HIS disciples (John 13:35).
Raj Attiken said, “when I watched the pope on television this past week, I did not see a “Holy Father,” “His Holiness,” or the “Vicar of Christ”; the voice I heard was not the “voice of St. Peter.” Instead, I saw and heard a 78-year old Argentinian man – a “gentle man” – who, for most of his life, was known as Jorge Mario Bergoglio. The impressions I formed, therefore, are about a man who is the head of a 1.2 billion-member church and about how he presented himself to the masses who watched him.”
Yes, he is an elderly man, leading a large church, and he looks like everyone’s grandpa, but no pope can divorce himself for the realities of the office. By allowing himself to take the oaths required to be pope, he agrees to all the heresies promulgated by the RCC. Read the fine print; the RCC has not changed one doctrine. And nearly the whole world is “wondering after the beast.”
If I had time with the current pope , I would buy him a smoothie,and share from scripture how his 1.2 billion member church is at odds with the teaching of Jesus, Paul and Moses on major doctrine, including one of the 10 commandments.
I do not get yanked into sensational media hype with cheap talk and superficial presentations/speeches. There is more than enough of those from preachers all over the planet including Adventists.
Does anyone ever think that Jim Jones never kissed a baby, shook hands with kids or smiled like Mr. Pope-ularity?
All of the villains of history have the capability to smile.
Actions speak louder than words..and future actions will be most revealing.
“And all the world wondered after the beast. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.” Revelation 13:3,4. This Eighth king/pope is Satan’s perfect tool for ushering the final crisis through his deceptive power. Are you getting ready for the final crisis, by allowing our loving Father Yahuwah to complete His work in your heart, to make you blameless?
It appears that Pope Frances’ problems are deepening rapidly. A couple of weeks ago, some cardinals wrote a letter condemning his ‘liberal’ views on homosexuality and divorcees. Now, look at this:
Pope brain tumour ‘apocalyptic plot to bring down Frances’ From ‘The Times’
A Vatican meeting of bishops, priests and cardinals to discuss doctrine has degenerated into a dark rumour mill, with claims of “apocalyptic” plots to bring down the Pope.
The Vatican press office has had to issue strident denials after an Italian newspaper reported on Wednesday that the Pope had consulted a Japanese neurosurgeon about a brain tumour.
The report, described as irresponsible and inexcusable by Father Federico Lombardi, a Vatican spokesman, was also denied by the surgeon himself, Takanori Fukushima.
L’Osservatore Romano, the Vatican’s daily newspaper, said that the tumour story was a well-timed attempt to kick up a “dust storm” around the Pope.
Adding to the conspiratorial atmosphere, bishops and cardinals said that hidden enemies of the Pope were trying to portray him as approaching the end of his reign, while conservatives were fighting his liberal leanings on homosexuals and divorcees at the synod, which ends tomorrow.
“It seems a sort of apocalyptic strategy that appears in the Bible and has been commonly used since ancient times,” the Argentine archbishop Victor Manuel Fernandez, who is close to the Pope, said. “This news was issued with evil intention…
Cont: “This news was issued with evil intention because talking about someone like this reveals an intent to destabilise him.”
The plotters behind the story would be difficult to identify, he added.
The editor of Quotidiano Nazionale, the newspaper that ran the tumour story, insisted yesterday that his source was reliable.
Other Italian newspapers insisted that the report represented a treacherous plot against the Pope, with Il Giornale running the headline: “Who wants the Pope dead?”
Pope Francis has encouraged open debate at the three-week synod, but many prelates refused to countenance an idea mooted by liberals of offering communion to remarried divorcees.
The synod opened amid controversy when an Italian magazine leaked a letter, allegedly signed by 13 leading clerics, warning the Pope that the Roman Catholic Church risked crumbling if it deviated from key teaching.
Some of the alleged signatories denied that they had signed the letter.
The German cardinal Gerhard Muller described the letter as “the new Vati-leaks,” referring to the publication in 2012 of correspondence from Pope Benedict, Francis’s predecessor, after it was leaked by the butler.
Pope Francis used a speech to the synod to warn bishops to avoid conspiratorial behaviour. Father Thomas Reese, a Vatican analyst with the National Catholic Reporter, wrote: “Never in my lifetime have I heard of bishops and cardinals being so disrespectful of a pope.”
Cardinal Donald Wuerl, the…
Cont: Cardinal Donald Wuerl, the Archbishop of Washington, suggested that some inside the synod “just don’t like this pope”.
Acknowledging the frictions within the synod hall, George Pell, an Australian cardinal, described a battle between those loyal to Benedict, a conservative, and Walter Kasper, a German cardinal who has pushed for a “penitential path” to allow divorcees to receive communion.
The tumour story, Cardinal Kasper told La Repubblica, was “a clumsy attempt to influence the work of the synod. But they will not achieve that. Nobody will manage to manipulate the Holy Father,” he said, adding that the Pope was in rude health.” The Times
I’m just guessing now, but I don’t think ‘Il Papa’ will have much time these days to even think about persecuting people who think he is a Beast.