Is the New President of Egypt an Adventist?
by Adventist Today News Team
The answer is a definite no! But the fact that the Muslim Brotherhood's official Web site quoted the allegation as a way of discrediting newly-installed President Adly Mansour does indicate something about the context within which the relatively small Adventist community in Egypt lives and works.
The statement that Mansour is "considered to be a Seventh Day Adventist, which is a Jewish sect," appeared briefly on the Muslim Brotherhood Web site as an item from "an alleged Facebook page of dubious credibility," according to The Washington Post and other major news media. Journalists immediately identified the Adventist Church as Protestant. Al-Jazerra television, the most reliable news source in the Arabic language, has confirmed that Mansour is Muslim, as is the majority of the population in Egypt.
There are less than a thousand Adventists in Egypt out of total population of 120 million. This is the same membership that was reported in 1965, although by 1974 the report was nearly 2,500 members. "Statistics for the Adventist Church in Egypt are … unreliable and fluctuate extremely," Dr. Borge Schantz, a former missionary in the region now retired as a pastor in his native Denmark, told Adventist Today. It was first organized in 1901 and at the end of the first decade had only 18 members. Today it operates two schools, one secondary and one primary school.
Galal Doss, a former church member who heads a popular food and cosmetics company in Egypt, has for the past couple of years aggressively distributed materials among Christians featuring his approach to propagating the Adventist faith because he felt that denomination was not doing enough. This has resulted in "a lot of animosity from the [dominate] Coptic Church," Schantz reported. "The Coptic Church claims about ten percent of the population, however Muslims put that number around six to eight percent."
Adventists "have never really been on good terms with the Coptic Church," Schantz said, although the official name of the denomination in Egyptian can be translated "the Seventh-day Adventist Coptic Denomination." Over the years "there were situations where Adventists were better treated by the Muslim government than by the Coptic Church."
"The ousting of President Morsi is a great gain for all Christians in Egypt [and] the present Army rule will no doubt be a welcome benefit" for them. Schantz, who was the founding director of the Adventist center specializing in the study of Islam, explained that there are five kinds of Muslims in Egypt.
(1) "Ethnic Muslims born in a Muslim society and carries the name of the tradition, but is personally independent of the culture, religion and activities of the brand of Islam he was born into. (2) Cultural Muslims who are socialized into the Muslim cultural tradition, its attitudes and beliefs, and experiences life through these traditions. (3) Secular Muslims who favor a life separated from religion in both politics and practice, but are not necessarily hostile to Allah, Mohammed and the Koran."
The three groups above often experience tension with two other groups. (4) "Religious Muslims who profess a specific set of beliefs, participate in certain religious practices and consider personal piety to be essential to their personal lifestyle. (5) Political Muslims who view Islam primarily as a socio-political framework and have specific ideas about the place, role and function of religion in society. They tend to view Islam as a total way of life, not only for individuals, but also for society."
The Sunni Muslims, the majority of Islam worldwide, "are able to live more peacefully with people of other faiths and the secular Muslims," Schantz pointed out. The Shiite Muslims are more fundamentalist and "about four to eight percent of people in all religions, political parties and ideologies have fundamentalist genes and tendencies."
"Muslims have never in any Islamic republic, kingdom or chiefdom experienced democracy. Perhaps the main reason for the Egyptian Army to take such strong measures is that they have observed how the democratically-elected Muslim Brotherhood president slowly began to … introduce provisions in accord with Islamic law. Over time … he could [have] become an Islamic dictator." After all, "Hitler was also democratically elected in 1933."
Asked if the Muslim Brotherhood understands any concept of religious liberty, Shantz explained that "conversion to Islam is simple, but Muslims are forbidden to convert from Islam to another religion." Some Muslim-majority countries have restrictions on religious freedom which favor Muslim citizens over non-Muslim citizens, while other Muslim countries "tend to be more liberal" and some "are secular and do not regulate religious belief" at all. This is a turning-point for Egypt.
The Egyptian Army just dealt a death blow to the radical Islamic Brotherhood in Egypt, and their influence & power will dwindle in the next few years thru-out the Middle East. The majority of Egyptians are Sunni, as is most of the Middle East, and have lived in a more tolerant freedom loving system , not controlled by the radicalism that the Shiite faction ushered in, in Iran, when the Shah was forced out & the Ayatolla Kohmanni returned from exile in Paris, and set up the Mullahs religious Govt. Egypt's history of control by the Army (since Farouk, of the Royal House was forced to abdicate) has had a succession of dictators, ie: Nasser, Sadat, and Muburrich, but no Religious Govt. control. The USA's support of the radical Islamic Brotherhood, with billions of dollars, and massive weapons support, has backfired. Freedom loving people in Egypt made it happen. Its time for the American people to stand up for our freedoms quickly vanishing, or we will live under Fascism, and
under the control of FEMA & HOMELAND SECURITY. North America's more recent new found Oil & Gas Reserves to last hundreds/thousands of years, and new technology for extraction (fracting), self suficiency is near and exporting to others has begun. Opec's power of holding the West hostage to its control is broken never to return.
Earl
Boy oh Boy. Aren't you going to be in for a few suprises over the next few years!
You said it best John.
I just wish to point out that the Eastern Orthodox Church, which includes the Egyptian Coptic Church, is an often overlooked branch of Catholicism; large in its numbers, and instrumental in persecuting Adventists and other Protestants wherever they dominate, especially in certain regions of Africa and Europe. It is interesting to also note that many high ranking leaders of the Eastern Orthodox Church are Freemasons too, yet the organization distances itself from such associations. No wonder the Egyptian Adventist Church is perhaps being setup for persecution by the likes of things. Perhaps Dr. Walter Veith may be spot on target with regards to Catholicism using a militant Islam as its propaganda tool to achieve its ends.
In addition to this, the Eastern Orthodox Church also has a Pope of sorts and is very much into the veneration of 'relics' – which in most cases are the bones of the dead, as do to their counterparts in Rome. Apart from the usual Sunday worship, the Coptic Church, just like their Western counterpart, (the Roman Catholic Church), claim to be the direct line of descendants of the early Apostolic Church in authority and purpose.
Should the Eastern Orthodox Church for some reason be aligned or controlled by the Roman Catholic Church, or vice versa, then I would say that by their sheer numbers, wealth, and certain secret society links, translated into influential political power; it would be quite easily a 'game, set and match' in an apocalyptic showdown.
"22Oct" states that the "Orthodox Church . . . is an often overlook branch of Catholicism." If by "Catholicism" 22Oct means the Roman Catholic Church, I'm sure that both members of the Orthodox Church and Roman Catholic Church would be very surprised to know this. They are very, very separate instittutions with very different histories. Up until recently, both of these Churches had considered the other church heretical. That recently was corrected by both churches.
MIght I suggest that "22Oct" might be helped by reading a book on church history.
Not unless it's written by Adventists who are discouraged, by their president to read non-SDA books.
Sir, church history books will tell you that both groups were initially very much together until they split largely over a political power struggle and over doctrinal issues rather similar to the more recent split between Anglicans and Catholics. To me they are all from the same cloth with a few trimmings here and there. They all bow down to Rome one way or another.
The Eastern Orthodox and RC Churches are officially split from each other, just like the Anglicans from the Catholics, the Methodists from the Anglicans, and the Adventists from the Methodists. All from the same clothe perhaps?
As for the Coptics, aren't a lot of them Monophysites, which are from any even earlier schism?
22oct1844–I am afraid that you are quite misinformed about Christian Church history. Seventh-day Adventists have evolved from the Roman church and they retain the theology and the perspectives of the western (Roman) church. The eastern church, which spread Christianity throughout Asia during the first two hundred years after Christ's death and ressurection, has a very different history and flavour. Most of it is very foreign to those of us who have been educated religiously by the Roman church, its offshoots such as Protestantism and Adventism.
I would suggest some reading of Eastern Christian Church history in order to better understand some of these difference and perhaps to get a new perspective of your own beliefs and paradigm.
What legitimate political offices are "out" for Adventists? Can an Adventist participate in political office?
A think of whole host of past and current Adventist political office holders shows you can. Ultra-conservatives suggest you can't.
Adly Mansour could easily be mistaken for a Christian name in Egypt. The retired official translator of the former Middle East Union is Pastor Nabil Mansour, an Egyptian national. There are no known Adventist politicians in Eyptian History since the first Adventist layman, Romualdo Bertola from Italy, set foot in Alexandria in 1877. As Borge Schantz, my doctoral dissertation advisor, points out, Adventists have fared much better in their relationships with Moslems than with the Orthodox (Coptic – which means Egyptian) church.
When I was Field President there (1989-1995), we were often derided by the late Coptic Pope Shenouda. He never gave us a chance to visit him. On the other hand, our church leaders twice were able to pay courtesy calls on the Grand Mufti of the Republic, or the head of the Sunni Eyptians.
The General Conference leadership got an invitation to a reception by the Egyptian Embassy in Washington DC during my term of office, on the occasion of the Coptic Pope's visit there. When the Pope arrived at the door of the Embassy he asked to see the guests' list. He spotted Adventists and bluntly ordered them to be removed before he would go in.
It should be pointed out that Galal Doss is not a 7th day Adventist member, although both he and his former wife who died at a young age (I conducted her funeral) come from well known Adventist families in the Middle East. Galal's father was a former President of the Adventist church in Egypt. Galal himself studied at Loma Linda University and was an Adventist pastor for a while. He is a fine generous Christian gentleman with a heart of gold. He once handed me a cheque of $40,000in the presence of the local pastor, to do as I pleased.
I told him the money would go towards renovating our church buildings up and down the country. He did not object. He joined forces with Hartland Institute over the years. He has his own church in the vast mansion that took him seven years to build, in Cairo. He is a fervent proponent and promulgator of "historic Adventism", "Babylon is fallen" and "the mark of the beast", etc.
I just received this comment from Pastor Nabil Mansour in Egypt. Nabil Gabriel Mansour, "This is a mischievous rumor by the MB to cause trouble, since the causation against Adventists is that they are Jews. His full name is " Adly Mahmoud Mansour . I never heard the name Mahmoud, being a Christian at all." (MB stands for Moslem Brotherhood)
22Oct1844 – Your observation is correct regarding Roman Catholicism and The Coptic Orthodox church of Egypt. Copts split from Rome for the reasons you mentioned and have since worked closely with the Moslem government to survive. They set up their own Pope which Rome does not recognise. In Egypt Catholics and Copts are quite distinct entities. The time will come, I believe, when not just Protestantism, but also Copts will bow down to Rome and accept the supremacy of the Roman Pontif. Meanwhile, Eygptian Copts claim that their first Pope was St Mark who allegedgly landed and lived in Alexandria and established the Egyptian/Coptic Papacy. It's all made up but there you are. They have to find some form of legitimacy to justify their brand of Papacy in one way or another, notwithstanding the Good Book, and Church history.
Aren't the Coptics of Egypt the Monophysite offshoots who split not from Rome but from the Eastern Orthodox communion over the definition of Christ during the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD? It was only later that the rest of the Eastern Orthodox split from the Latin West some 600-years later. Thus, the Coptics of Egypt seem to be two-times removed from Rome. By contrast, the SDA Church is only three-times removed from Rome (Anglicans-Methodists-Adventists).
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