Day 3 of Annual Council: Wilson says Satan Trying to Destroy Church
by Monte Sahlin
From ANN, October 11, 2014
Pastor Ted Wilson, world leader of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination, said Satan was using every means at his disposal to try to destroy the Adventist Church and neutralize its mission of proclaiming Jesus’ soon coming. In a sermon that serves as his annual world pastoral address, Wilson said the devil’s tactics include ecumenism, charismatic worship approaches, and attacks on biblical prophetic understanding, and he said he had felt the blows personally in recent weeks with the death of a prematurely born grandson and the discovery that two other grandsons suffer serious health problems.
But he urged the listening church leaders of the Annual Council, a major church business meeting, to join him in submitting to God and taking a unified stand for the distinctive, biblical beliefs of the Adventist denomination, regardless of whether the teachings might be derided as unpopular or politically incorrect. “In these perilous closing scenes of Earth’s history, remember that the devil is attempting to neutralize anything and everything we do—even at this Annual Council,” Wilson told the packed auditorium at the world church’s headquarters in Silver Spring, Maryland. “Through God’s power, let us be entirely respectful, Christ-like, and loving in our discussions and exchanges during this Annual Council on whatever topic we may speak.”
The Annual Council has several key issues to discuss, including whether the world church should revise some of the wording of its 28 Fundamental Beliefs and extend ordination to women. The 338 members of the Annual Council will decide whether to send those issues for a final vote next July to the General Conference session, the top governing body of the world church.
Wilson expressed gratefulness to God for bringing about a “beautiful spirit” in pre-Annual Council meetings between world church leaders. He shared an appeal from General Conference and division officers to the Annual Council delegates, asking that they remain Christ-like even if differences of opinion emerged. “Our humble demeanor and attitudes, through God’s power, will speak volumes to those who are watching,” he said, reading the appeal. “We earnestly appeal that we do all in our power to strengthen the church and this precious Advent movement.”
Wilson said Revelation 13 outlines a two-pronged satanic plan to destroy God’s last-day people: an ideological war of lies and errors that challenge the truth, and outright persecution culminating in a death decree against those who obey God’s biblical laws. “Though large-scale persecution will certainly come, currently Satan is trying to work from the inside to weaken the church through dissension, discord, and conformity to the world,” Wilson said.
Wilson repeatedly pointed to the Scriptures and the writings of Ellen G. White, co-founder of the Adventist movement, as the way to discern God’s will during the 70-minute sermon, which was punctuated with frequent “amens.” At one point he urged Annual Council delegates to make sure that they weren’t reading the Bible upside-down. “When you read the Bible upside-down, you will get an upside-down understanding,” he said, citing an African saying that he heard on a recent trip.
He singled out the historical-critical method of biblical interpretation as undesirable, saying it clouded the themes and topics of the Bible. “As we seek to know God’s will through a study of His Word, we must not place strange interpretations and employ interpretive gymnastics to draw out conclusions that are not evident from a plain reading of the Word,” he said.
Wilson, who has made a call for “revival and reformation” a hallmark of his presidency, listed a number of other ways that he saw the devil seeking to destroy the Adventist Church, including: (1) Inspiring a belief that reformation within the church means giving up unique doctrines so that it is easier for people to become Adventists. (2) Using tradition and philosophy to destroy faith in the Bible. (3) Urging people to move independently of the main body of the church. (4) Advancing charismatic and Pentecostal music and worship approaches that focus on church members and those leading out in services rather than on the true worship of God. (5) Distracting people with secular activities such as competitive sports, the Internet, the media, financial deals, and materialism. (6) Encouraging poor health habits and a lack of respect for God’s natural laws, thereby enfeebling the mind and benumbing the senses. (7) Stirring skepticism about the veracity of the scriptural record of the origin of life and early history. (8) Spreading spiritualism. (9) Promoting ecumenism, or cooperation and better understanding among Christian faiths with the unattainable goal of universal Christian unity.
Wilson strongly cautioned against associating with ecumenical groups. “Don’t succumb to the temptation to be so cozy with other religious organizations that you fall into the devil’s trap of neutralizing your own effectiveness through unbiblical ecumenical bonds,” he said. Adventists also should avoid inviting clergy from other faiths to preach to Adventist churches on Sabbaths, he said. But he stressed that it was important for Adventists to be friendly with people of all faiths, to be leaders in public affairs and religious liberty, and to share their love for Jesus with the public.
Making his message personal, Wilson, age 64, told of a series of hardships that have befallen his family and that he linked to Satan’s war against the church. Wilson and his wife, Nancy, have three married daughters and eight grandchildren.
Edward, the 2-year-old son of the Wilsons’ eldest daughter is suffering numerous neurological problems after eight months of cancer treatment left him cancer-free but with antibodies that are attacking his brain, Wilson said. “We thank God that Edward is showing some improvement with treatment, but the extent of his future recovery remains uncertain,” he said.
A second grandson, 15-month-old James, born to the Wilsons’ middle daughter, has been diagnosed with a rare genetic mutation that has only been detected in two other people in the world. Three weeks ago, the youngest daughter lost her third child. “After the premature delivery at four months, she held the perfectly formed little boy in her hand,” Wilson said. “When the Lord returns, Catherine’s little son will be placed in her arms, and he will grow up in heaven.”
He said, however, that the devil would not succeed in any efforts to neutralize his family’s witness. “In the last year or so, the devil has attempted to neutralize every one of our three precious daughters, their families and us as parents. But he will not succeed. God is in control. He will be victorious. The faith of my daughters and their families and all of us is strong in the Lord,” he said, drawing loud “amens” from the audience.
Wilson cautioned that no one listening to the sermon in the main auditorium of the General Conference building was exempt from the devil’s attacks. “We are all in this together,” he said. “There are many in this room who are going through far worse situations.”
Looking beyond internal church issues, Wilson said Satan was attacking the church on other fronts as well, including the Ebola outbreak in West Africa and violence in Iraq, Syria, and Ukraine. Despite the difficulties, Wilson called on the delegates to boldly proclaim the distinctive message of the Adventist Church. “Stay away from anything that will undermine our message or cloud our distinctive beliefs,” he said. “Don’t be tempted by the devil to blend in with the crowd or be politically correct. Don’t proclaim a generic Christianity or a ‘cheap-grace Christ’ that does not point to the distinctive Biblical truths to be declared worldwide, the very reason for which the Seventh-day Adventist Church was organized.” The church leaders stood when Wilson concluded with an appeal to join him in submitting to God’s power and asking for protection from the devil’s attacks.
The Adventist News Network (ANN) is the official news service of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination.
Actually,… "No comment"…
“We, General Conference and division officers, appeal to all Annual Council attendees to accept each other as brothers and sisters in Christ regardless of some differences of opinion that may be evident on certain subjects. We ask for Christ-likeness and humble respect for each other in our words and activities during this Annual Council and beyond. Our humble demeanor and attitudes, through God’s power, will speak volumes to those who are watching. We earnestly appeal that we do all in our power to strengthen the church and this precious Advent movement. We lean completely on Christ for the unifying spirit that we need in proclaiming the three angels’ messages in these last days of Earth’s history.”
I believe God has led Mr. Wilson to speak out, because what he says is true. Several topics are causing deep schisms in God's church, the ordination of women, rock n roll, and spiritualism being only a few. The Seventh-day Adventist Church and its people are called out by God to be a peculiar people, not joining the crowd but ever standing upon God's Word and God's word alone.
I agree that we need to stand upon God's word and God's word alone. We should not be taking away from the Bible but neither should we be adding to it. Phrases like "recent" and "24 hours" do not appear in Genesis.
Having read Ted Wilson's speech in its entirety I agree with almost all of it. But I note that while calling us to return to the Bible, he quotes several times as many Ellen verses as Bible verses. In fact after his opening quote from Peter I read through reams of Ellen quotes before I found any more Bible quotes. Until you get to the "personal" section of the speech, I would estimate that at least 1/3 of the verbiage is direct Ellen quotes.
I wonder what proportion of Elder Wilson's time was devoted to Bible study vs Ellen study in preparing this carefully-written speech? I have difficulty in detecting any distinction in most of his speeches and writings between Bible study and Ellen study. I do not know the answers to these questions. I am merely commenting on what I see and hear from him via the GC PR mill.
In many aspects of leadership Ted Wilson strives mightily to lead by example. I realize from my own study and teaching ministry that it is a lot more work to go back to the Bible to derive and explain things that Ellen may have nicely captured. But by drawing so heavily on Ellen in his public proclamations, his actions regarding the primacy of the Bible are speaking louder than his words. This might be OK when he is "speaking to the choir" in GC meetings. But when his remarks are widely published and presumably then widely quoted, it conveys a very different impression. Probably unfairly, this speech makes it appear that his primary source of inspiration is Ellen. And that by example he is encouraging us to emulate his own mode of reasoning.
matno1949-
You have demonstrated an ability to describe in a few words the serious problems onfronting the SDA church. I doubt that there will be time or a desire to carefully consider the rock and roll issue.
I believe that EGW was a servant of the Lord. I must confess that I have to agree that TW uses EGW quotes far too often in his talk to the asembled group and more references to Scripture would be desirable.
Maranatha
If you are going for "peculiar," subordinating women and promoting scientific ignorance is a really fine way of getting there. As it is, many in the church have the "peculiar" part nailed.
Brother Hamstra,
Let us not surmise about Elder Wilson's bible study versus Ellen study. Ellen White is a prophet of God, and God used her to give us the health message, the Sabbath message as well as the importance of the Sanctuary. Admitedly, I generally refer to her only when I need clarification but as a prophet she stands just as tall in God's sight as does Jeremiah, Martin Luther, etc. All were used by God to correct and direct his people.
As humans we all err, but Elder Wilson is speaking out on a lot of issues that are causing us, as a people, to take our eyes off of Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. I believe that these issues have been introduced by Satan. United, on truth, we stand for God, but divided we will fail in our mission/- to spread the gospel to every nation, kindred, tongue and people.
As for me, it is much easier for me to study the bible than to study Sr White's writings, because I am familiar with the Bible while I am not familiar with her writings. As with all information I receive from men, however, regardless of their position, I compare what they are saying (writing) with the sure word of God. Nothing Brother Wilson wrote, even if quoted from Sister White, is out of line with the teachings of the Bible. That is the bottom line to me. "To the law and to the testimony. If they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Isaiah 8:20) As far as teaching me to emulate him (Elder Wilson); this is not so. For I know in whom I believe.
Contrary to popular opinion, Ellen White was NOT the primary source of Adventist beliefs. With all due respect, the Sabbath came into what is now the Adventist church from Rachel Oakes to William Miller. James and Ellen White initially resisted the Sabbath message. Likewise the Sanctuary message came via Hiram Edson.
Not to diminish Ellen's role in the formation of what we know today as the SDA church. But she herself would have been the first to admit that she wrote and taught about doctrines that were mostly the product of other early Adventist pioneers.
The habit of some Adventists who tend to cite Ellen as a primary source for almost everything they believe contributes to the popular impression among Christians that Adventists are a cult. By his personal and widely-publicized example Ted Wilson is promoting this impression. I do not believe this is his intent. I do believe it is a clear consequence when people who are not Adventist "insiders" read this output.
At least half of my relatives are non-SDA Christians. One of the frequent objections they have regarding our church is that we place Ellen above the Bible. The ready availability of all of this Ellen-talk from our top leaders online provides much fuel for their opinion.
How can we expect to "reach the world" when we bundle-up our message in Ellen-talk that makes us appear to be a cult and mostly makes littel sens at all to the uninitiated?
Unfortunately Bugs-Larry Boshell (former Adventist minister) is all too correct when he denounces much of the conversation within the Adventist church as taking place in our own "echo chamber".
The early believers came to be called Christians because they were constantly talking about Christ. I have heard outsiders describe Adventists who are always talking about Ellen white as "little Ellens". This is NOT what she would have wanted.
Elder Wislon's compulsive or intentional return to Ellen-talk may endear him to the attendees at Annual Council (many of whom will sit on the nominating committee that deliberates his future next year). To most of the rest of the Christain world it is a complete turn-off.
Revival and Reformation requires that we be willing to forsake our bad habits, even if they are not overtly sinful they may be an impediment to our cause. Paul had to move bayond his parochial upbringing and jargon to reach a larger audience. So must we.
Jim well said. You reflect pretty much what I feel is the 'silent middle' of Adventism, whose voice is often drowned out in the continual 'culture wars' between extreme conservatives and liberals.
You may be right, Brother Hamstra, about people's perceptions about Ellen White. But the book I read on William Miller states that he never accepted the Sabbath. I believe it was in Early Writings that Sr. White said she first heard of the Sabbath from Sabbath keeping Ana-Baptists. I don't really know what an Ana-Baptist is, but… It is not important. The important part is that God brought the knowledge to the attention of our church leaders and they followed God's leading.
My biggest problem with many in the church today is that they prefer to quote the writings of other authors instead of Sr. White. God gave us a prophet why go outside the church in search of the truth. I meantioned this earlier, and I will say it again. Yes, there are good, honestly seeking truth seekers in other churches, but if they are not living up to the truth God has given why would we go to them for guidance; should not a people go to God? And this much I know, the other denominations are well aware of the Sabbath Truth. How do I know? Because every denomination has a sect that keeps Sabbath. I was almost baptized into the Seventh-day Baptist Church. I was raised a Methodist. At the beginning of each service the pastor would read each commandment, pause, and the congregation would respond, "Lord have mercy upon us and inpire our hearts to keep this law." He read all ten commandments. They may not have accepted the Sabbath truth, but it is known to them. The majority of my family members attend Sunday keeping churches while large majority are Muslim. Most are aware of Sabbath keeping, they just don't feel it is important.
matno,
In my travels I have had the privilege of working with Godly men and women from many faith communities, including former Adventists, Catholics, Protestants, Jehovah's Witnesses, Latter-Day Saints, Jews, Muslims and even Hindus. God knows His own among every nation and kindred and tongue and people. I fully expect so see many of my friends and colleagues in the Kingdom of Heaven.
And as I have related balow, my own close relatives include a mixture of Protestant faith groups.
My kind advice to you is to show love and care and respect to all of your relatives and friends. Be ready to answer questions when and if they ask, and to listen to what they have to say. And what may be more difficult is not to press upon them answers that they are not asking you for. Not all religious and personal differences will be resolved in this life. We can look forward to sharing a wonderful and unfettered fellowship in the life to come.
Always, Brother Hamstra. The LORD has shown me through my life to never judge a persons walk with God, never. Mine was circuitous and even though I didn't know it, God was preparing me for the mission I would have when he brought me back to Christ. There is not a doubt in my mind that each thing I experienced equipped me for my service for God today.
My biggest problem with many in the church today is that they prefer to quote the writings of other authors instead of Sr. White.
I must confess that I prefer to quote other authors. Specifically I prefer to quote from the Bible wherever possible.
God gave us a prophet why go outside the church in search of the truth.
The Adventist pioneers including James and Ellen White had many books in their libraries. They freely drew from non-Adventist and occasionally even non-Christian sources in their preaching and their writing. And they fearlessly tested all sources by the Bible. We would be well-served to do likewise.
What has frustrated me for many years is how many Adventists, in particular those in higher church leadership positions, seem to think Ellen White was the ONLY writer whom God inspired. That is such utter nonsense that it is far more pitiable than laughable. God inspires ALL who are willing to be led by the Holy Spirit.
MY BAD – I meant to write
" the Sabbath came into what is now the Adventist church from Rachel Oakes to Joseph Bates "
I must have imbibed too much Miller and it affected my brain 8-(.
Rachel Oakes was a Seventh-day Baptist who accepted the Advent message. As such she was the first recorded Seventh-day Adventist (though before that name came into use). The first Seventh-day Adventist church in Washington NH (I have visited it) grew out of a Seventh-day Baptist chirch that accepted the Adventist message (if I remember correctly).
Rachel Oakes shared her belief in the Sabbath with Joseph Bates. Bates became convinced of the truth of the Sabbath and promulgated this message to other Adventists. He published his beliefs in tracts and at least one book, using his own funds.
The Anabaptist movement arose from the teachings of Menno Simmons, who came from what is now Friesland, a province of the Netherlands. They were called Anabaptists because they opposed the practice of baptizing infants and young children, which was prevalent both in the Catholic church and in the Reformed chuches. The Baptist churches in the US of A and elsewhere arose from the Anabaptist movement, as did the Mennonites and other religious groups.
My great-grandfather Hamstra emigrated from Friesland soon after he married because he did not want his babies to be baptized. After he arrived in Michigan he became a Seventh-day Adventist. My mother's father also emigrated from Friesland and remained a staunch Calvinitst as are most of his offspring. My wife's ancestors were Anabaptists who emigrated from the Ukraine and Romania. Some of them (including her mother's immediate family) became Seventh-day Adventists after they arrived in North Dakota but many (including her father's immediate family) remained Baptists or Mennonites.
I am a Seventh-day Adventist but I will readily proclaim that we do not have a corner on Godly committed Christians.
Thank you for the information on the Ana-Baptists. I totally agree with you, about Godly committed Christians being in other religions. My Grandmother, Mama, was the only person I had ever met who always displayed Christ in her life. I never heard her say one bad word about anyone, even if they merited it. When something bad was gossipped about someone, she would always point out the positive part of their character and say, "wouldn't it be nice if everyone had that?" She was so loving. When she died, people from all over the community, even white people in the divided south of the 60's, came to show their respect for Mama, a true representative for Christ.
Thank you for sharing such a wonderful example of what God's love can do in a person's life. How I wish that more of us would let God work in us to love others through us in that degree, if not more!
Starting with Genesis 3, the scripture abundantly and consistently is clear that humanity's task is not to resist, fight, or otherwise attempt to prevail against the Serpent. The Creator, right from the very first day, took full, personal, total, and eternal responsibility for dealing with the Serpent.
There seems nothing remotely beneficial to the Three Angels' Message to rehearse the present personified evidence of the continued presence of the Serpent.
Calling attention to the Serpent's active presence inescapably tempts us to personally take up a fight that the Creator has directly, simply, and unmistakably declared is not ours to fight. Indeed, the results of such a patient, persistent, undertaking is described by the Third Angel, is it not?
Meanwhile, there is everything beneficial to be showcasing the results of the Gospel being presently embraced wherever it is being proclaimed around the world. It encourages us each by affirming for us our safety in having embraced the truth of the Gospel, as John describes with this short sentence: 'Here is the patience of the saints: here are those who continue to embrace God's promises [commandments] with the faith of Jesus [while the Three Angels’ Message is being testified to by us, while being proclaimed by not us, but angels.]’
i agree Bill, the ultimate is Jesus Christ. Its all about Jesus, not us. The gospel message of SDA is insular; however, the gospel of Christ is the responsibility of the "THREE ANGELS".
While I too am conerned for my church and her future, I can not help but read between the lines of each of Elder Wilson's concerns. He clearly has an agenda and if you are not part of that, then I fear it's "woe" to you. It seems to me I heard the same things in his inuagural address, "Go Forward" which rang in my ears as "Go Backwards." But excuse me for now as I re-read More Than a Prophet, and then contemplate on a little of Richard Foster's book while listening to that Rock n' Roll praise music. Oh, woe is me. The truth is that I weep for our church, while many of our churches (and very conservative one who would be Ted Wilson friendly) are slumbering; impotent in giving the last message to the world.
Adventism was founded on the principle of non-creedalism. We never traditionally had well-defined boundaries, just like the NT Church. What instead was to unite us is a central core, just like the NT Church. I wish we'd all realise that and stop lamenting over stupid "non-essential" issues like Ellen White, music or whether a minister needs a penis.
It's a curious fact that the creedal churches have flexed in the face of scientific/traditional doctrinal challenges. Creeds are apparently relatively pliant, in keeping with a more metaphorical approach to the theology of the religious systems they represent. Not sure exactly of the Adventist history of detestation of creeds, I'm assuming it was from a superiority complex developed in the idea of "present truth" as incomplete, but an ever growing enlargement of "The Truth."
Thus, Adventism has painted itself in the proverbial corner since there is no room in "present truth" for truth presently, that is, the mythical nature of the Creation story. Seven day creation is the scaffolding supporting Adventism. And that, Steve, is where you and other modifiers (my term) smash heads into the brick wall of a no creedal church only to discover it is actually buttressed by a sub-rosa frozen solid, super creed. Sabbath.
I am puzzled by the angst over Wilsons efforts. Religious organizations are built as much on tradition as theology. One supports the other. Alterations to either change the nature of the institution.
The problem for the modifiers, those critical of Wilson, is that they will never be satisfied since they represent a plethora of concerns, none of which can be entirely satisfied whatever the adjustments might theoretically be. The outcome, also, would enrage the core adherents to traditional Adventism.
The house of Adventism is built on a very critical framework. That is, the Scripture as the literal word of God. Jiggle that in any significant way and Adventism raison d'etre vanishes.
Leaders lead. It appears that Wilson has a clear vision of traditional Adventism and what it needs to survive and he is at the forefront of preserving it. The nomenclature and symbols he employs (Satan at work) are appropriately drawn from the library of Adventist tradition.
The day of reckoning has come. The church will either renew in its tradition or become the church Formerly Known as the Seventh-day Adventist.
The dilemma for the alterers has a couple of possible solutions. Do what I did forty years ago when I determined I wasn't in tune with the doctrines and move on. Or keep on keeping on with "mental reservations." Or adopt a metaphor interpretation (a version of mental reservations, perhaps) of Adventist theology. And shut up.
Bugs-Larry,
You having long since escaped from Adventism, why should anything that happens in Silver Spring concern you? Are you trying to organize some kind of Underground Railroad to help others escape? Or are you afraid that the Evil Empire is planning to stike back 😎 ?
Still almost everything you wrote here is true. Personally I find you more effective as a curmudgeon than as a sarcastic wit.
I do take exception to the notion that the SDA church is about to go away. Really? At a time of record worldwide growth? But it is certainly becoming less relevant in the US and Western Europe, except among recent immirants. Our traditional ways of doing things that worked in previous generations here now work well in third world countries.
For many years I have been telling Americans that if they want to see our future, look at Britain's present. And I tell my Adventist frinds in "emerging" countries that if they want to see the future of their churches at home, look at the American churches now.
Brazil is rapidly overtaking North America as the economic engine behind the GC. The Anglo church in North America crested in the 1960s when the Baby Boomers (my generation) came of age. When the Brazilian church peaks, their next 50 years will look much like our past 50 years.
I envision a time when Brazil will be home to more ex-Adventists than active Adventists.
Bugs-Larry, your visions of the day when there are no longer growth markets for traditional Adventism are visions of the future, not of the present 8-).
Jim, I'm not sure myself why I care. My best guess is that thirty four years of my life were consumed by my exposure and commitment to the church. There is an indelible, inerasable, residual imprint remaining. I departed for intellectual reasons, not for the values inculcated. Honesty, commitment to duty, concern for others, are several of the exposures that formed my ethic. I credit my Adventist experience for those, and many other good things.
I left behind a mass of people who differed from me in that they found value in their church, its theology and its culture. My departure doesn't minimize those who see/saw things different than me.
An "underground railroad?" Most of the people around me were shocked (I was an Adventist hospital chaplain) when I announced I was leaving. I owned my private intellectual journey, wasn't looking for allies (one exception was another minister who confided he was struggling with the same issues and who departed before I did), and have made no effort to enlist or undermine anyone I left behind. I think I represent an "overground railroad." That is, a demonstration that one can "front slide," exit the church, free of anger and hatred, and for those so intellectually inclined am an example that there is far more legitimate and acceptable ways to conduct life than just the Adventist way.
Curmudgeon definition: "A crusty, ill-tempered, and usually old man?" Hey, I'm only 74 and totally teed off you consider me an ill-tempered old guy, you rat! And my needling (sarcastic wit) of theology, modifiers, cowardly dilettantes, is very effective by my own independent estimation!
All visions of the future, including mine, seldom materialize.
Sorry Larry, but you are definitely older and crustier than I. Curmudgeon it is. Thus it hath been said and thus shall it be.
I was raised African Methodist Episcopal and when I was 10 I determined that there was no God; as soon as physically possible (after leaving home) I not only left the church, but God way behind. I had nothing against the people who were loving, but I did have something against the idea that someone other than myself was in control of my life. I praise the LORD for this freedom he gave me. When I became disenchanted with my worldly success, and started seeking something to fill the emptiness within myself, I picked up the Bible and began studying it for myself. Verse by verse, line by line, with only a concordance and a dictionary to help me. Slowly, but surely my studies showed me that the Seventh-day Adventist Church with it's old-fashioned teachings and biblical basis was the true church. Leaving the church at a young age left me open to other teachings, the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles. I agree with Elder Wilson. The devil is attacking the church, and anyone who is not noting the signs of the times: The Pope rising in ascendancy in the world – all the world wondering after the beast, the United States gaining power and strength from other nations – the US is being asked to solve the Boka Harem and ISIS problem as well as the Ebola problem, and the Protestants joining hands with the central belief that God is in all of us; also called spiritualism – these are the three pronged beast of Revelation – is going to become the 5 foolish virgins left outside the wedding when Christ comes.
May God bless you in your search for truth, my brother.
Yes, Satan is attacking all who are following Jesus. What's new or alarming about that? Nothing. What is alarming is how concerned people are becoming about it because they are realizing the spiritual house they have built was constructed with defective human concepts in many places instead of the purity of God's word and the power of the Holy Spirit. So, yes, they have much to fear when their spritual house begins to crack and break-apart. The solution is simple: focus not on us fixing the cracks and damage but letting God rebuild us according to His model that has long been buried under traditionalism.
“The problem for the modifiers, those critical of Wilson, is that they will never be satisfied since they represent a plethora of concerns, none of which can be entirely satisfied whatever the adjustments might theoretically be. The outcome, also, would enrage the core adherents to traditional Adventism.
The house of Adventism is built on a very critical framework. That is, the Scripture as the literal word of God. Jiggle that in any significant way and Adventism raison d'etre vanishes.
Leaders lead. It appears that Wilson has a clear vision of traditional Adventism and what it needs to survive and he is at the forefront of preserving it. The nomenclature and symbols he employs (Satan at work) are appropriately drawn from the library of Adventist tradition.”
I must admit that I’m in agreement with all of the statements that appear above; except that I don’t consider “Satan at work” to be symbolic of anything whatsoever—that is what is literally happening. Frankly, I also (even sort of) agree with Larry’s concluding paragraph in that particular post.
"The house of Adventism is built on a very critical framework. That is the Scripture as the literal word of God. Jiggle that in any significant way and Adventism raison d'etre vanishes."
This is actually a pretty ridiculous statement. The extent to which any particular element(s) or quality(s) in any system or organization is or are essential, in combination or in isolation, to its identity and reason for existence is really not knowable. Institutions and organizations that were formed with a very specific and unique purpose become "living organisms." They evolve over time and generations. Their purposes self-perception, behaviors, and priorities change over time, especially as they become more diverse.
Generally speaking, organizations and institutions wither and atrophy, not because they have lost their raison d'etre, but because they refuse/fail to adapt to changed circumstances. Organizations that are successful over time treasure the "critical framework" on which they were built, while still remaining open to the necessity for evolution and re-formation of identity. Judeo-Christian traditions have radically altered their views of the Word of God and the divine-human encounter over thousands of years. Their raison d'etre has hardly vanished – except in the minds of their enemies.
"This is actually a pretty ridiculous statement." Really?
The church "Previously Known as Seventh-day Adventist" is the carcass of what used to be without a literal application of Scripture.
Post mortems of many organizations and institutions do indeed reveal your assertion that failure, for whatever reason, to adapt is the cause of death.
Adventism Is different. Its "physiology" is singular, unlike Lutheranism, Methodism and other virtually all other Christian denominations. The names reveal the difference. Methodism, a methodical approach to Christian life, Lutheranism, based on a concept of Martin Luther's non-Catholic theology, Catholic, a universal church fathered by Peter, are three examples of systems built with enough slack (not realized at their foundations, for sure) to adapt to shifting theologies. So, your statement is legitimate here:"Organizations that are successful over time treasure the "critical framework" on which they were built, while still remaining open to the necessity for evolution and re-formation of identity."
Adventism is permanently handcuffed to an immobile definition of itself. Sabbath keeping is equivalent to Sunday keeping without a literal application of the commandments and the authority of "God resting on the seventh day." Metaphorical can't apply here without devastating results for an organization whose name announces its commitment to a categorical dogma.
Nathan, do you really believe that the body of Adventism, those millions of "believers" would easily adapt to an announcement that the Biblical account of creation is metaphor, that the capstone of their weekly faith practice has now no authority except tradition? The Adventist church is congenitally attached to creationism and along with the perceived authority of the ten commandments and its raison d'etre would indeed vanish if either was modified. Its entry into the mortuary wouldn't be "the work of its enemies," but the hand of "modifiers," one of which you apparently are, a promoter of the pipe dream of a new Adventism.
"Judeo-Christian traditions have radically altered their views of the Word of God and the divine-human encounter over thousands of years." Adventism cannot be a successful organization by your definition.
You obviously disagree, would you outline a course of action, modifications that wouldn't fatally injure the church? Please contradict my contention.
My real question is why do you and others cling so tightly, even desperately, to an organization that isn't "open to the necessity for evolution and re-formation of identity." There are countless avenues for you and them to move on, avoiding the hopeless quest you appear to be angrily on.
The Lutherans are indeed centered around a core concept of doctrines as are the Calvinists whom you failed to mentioned. Both of these groups hew very much to sola scriptura. These groups have adapted their beliefs and practices over time and in different places and remain reasonably intact, though the Lutherans in some places have fragmented into different synods over some questions of faith and practice.
The Catholics are centered around a core concept of ecclesiatical authority while holding an amazing diversity of beliefs. The Catholic church has assimilated new doctrines without ever abandoning its old ones. You can find in a good Catholic encyclopedia (I have read one 😎 that the dead are in their graves, in Purgatory, in Heaven or Hell. You can find them going to Heaven or Hell when they die, to Purgatory when they die, or to Heaven or Hell after the Second Advent. Likewise you can believe in Creation or Evolution or some mixture of the two. And you can worship on Sabbath or Sunday. You can pray to God or Jesus or Mary or Saints. No wonder Revelation calls this system Babylon (or confusion). Today a better description might be syncretism.
The Methodists are a curious example and whether you can consider them survivors is debatable. Because the Methodist movement was and is centered on devout spiritual life with no core set of beliefs, you could and can believe almost anything and be a Methodist. The Methodist church today is in serious decline.
The Episcopalians lie somewhere between the Catholics and the Methodists. This is not surprising given their history. And like the Methodists they are in serious decline. The same can be said for the Congregationists and other "traditional" protestant faiths that have strayed far from their original moorings.
Meanwhile the fastest growing Christian faiths worldwide are those that still adhere to the distinctive teachings of their inspired founders, like Adventists and Mormons, and the Charismatic churches of various stripes. Whatever you may think of the Holy Spirit, churches that believe they are inspired in some special or general way, tend to do better than other chuches.
Progressive Adventists seem to wish we become more like the Methodists – a community of religious fellowship with no central core of belief or authority. I submit that should we follow this path we will indeed become like the Methodists.
Conservative Adventists seem to wish we hew to a course combining the strong central authority of the Catholics with the doctrinal cohesion of the Calvinists, steering closely to the religious writings of our founders.
Something to think about 8-).
I have a Master of Divinity degree from the Iliff School of Theology, a Methodist school, on the Denver University of Colorado campus. In the nineteen seventies, it was a smooth functioning theology school with a harmonious mixture of conservative and liberal students and professors. In the last twenty years it has deteriorated into an inane sump of political correctness virtually devoid of God talk. Jim and Earl, it is symbolic of the current Methodist Church, I think. The Catholic church isn't far behind. There appears to be a growing leftist influence among its hierarchy, personified by the current pope, augured by its multiplicity of teachings, moving it down a slope of triviality. Judging by the mindless masses attending mass (my wife is Catholic and I occasionally accompany her in my undercover investigative role, in addition to the attractions of marital harmony), the ongoing clergy moral crisis seems to have little effect on attendance. Most churches are full, a reality that would be coveted by most Adventist ministers, if they knew about it. I'm thinking the mindless masses don't care about anything but the sacraments and ignore moral and political diversions.
I think Wilson has surveyed the landscape, sees the terrors on every front, and has chosen to promote his perceived solution with the least dire outcome. That's not an opinion of the genuineness of his belief. I have no idea.
Bugs the Catholic Churches might be full where you are but not in Australia where I sit. Except of course amongst recent immigrant groups, from India and Phillipines.
I have been studying theology in a course affiliated with the Anglican (Episcopalians) and United Church (Methodists) for the last three years. Finish at the end of this year.
They too are largely dead – at least in this Australian. In fact, I do agree that the Catholics are more alive than them, because Catholics still seem to 'believe' in something, like the actual historical, physical and corporeal resurrection of Jesus. The Episcopalians and Methodists don't seem to 'believe' anymore.
As far as I understand it, Adventism is pretty alive and healthy compared to the 'mainstream' denominations. I'm also not sure if your description of an Adventist approach to a 'literal' reading of scripture is entirely true either.
“Progressive Adventists seem to wish we become more like the Methodists – a community of religious fellowship with no central core of belief or authority. I submit that should we follow this path we will indeed become like the Methodists.”
I believe that you may be onto something with this Jim. Progressive Adventists appear to want a non-denominational denomination with no particular beliefs; or should I say no beliefs in particular. A lack of central authority or organization—disintegration—would naturally flow from that model.
“Conservative Adventists seem to wish we hew to a course combining the strong central authority of the Catholics with the doctrinal cohesion of the Calvinists, steering closely to the religious writings of our founders.”
While I certainly agree that conservative Adventists want “doctrinal cohesion…steering closely to the religious writings of our founders;” many conservatives do not value “strong central authority” very much. I view doctrinal cohesion as perhaps the one real benefit of strong central authority.
Brother Nathan, I am directing this response directly to you. Your statement, "Generally speaking, organizations and institutions wither and atrophy, not because they have lost their raison d'etre,but because they refuse/fail to adapt to changed circumstances." is true which is why you must go back to their founding principles to know what the organization believes in. Unfortunately the term "changed circumstances" generally refers to societal norms, i.e., methods of dress, moral standards, etc. which as Christian we should never follow. Yes, we are to love and accept people where they are when they meet Jesus, but none of us are suppose to allow where they are to change where we stand on a plain "thus says the LORD." The Seventh-day Adventist Church was founded on the Bible and the Bible only. People in the church have forgotten that. In fact, I have been to Adventist churches where the pastor doesn't even refer to the bible, he refers to notes from books from 1st day theologians. An example I like to use when speaking about foundational beliefs is the Baptist church. Two principles caused them to break from the Luthern movement; infant baptism and baptism by sprinkling, YET there are Baptist congregations today who "sprinkle." In the same way, in the Adventist Church today is we want to be like other people. We want to be popular and fill auditoriums, so we add a "praise" time and allow clapping instead of an amen, and we focus on the singer instead of the message. BUT Jesus told us, truth is not popular. "Strait is the gate and narrow is the way…" What does this tell me? It tells me several things, but the main one is this; if everyone is doing it, then it is most likely wrong. This leads me back to the Bible to see what God requires of me. This is necessary if I plan to see Jesus in peace. It is easier to just go along, but …One area where many of my family disagree (there are 3 adventists in my immediate family of over 150) and unfortunately many of my Adventist friends disagree is music. It is distressing to me when I enter a church and hear the same music and the same beat that I danced to in the nightclubs. So I do a study and find that the rythyms and drum beats are the same ones used in Voodoo and witchcraft ceremonies. When I went to the Bible to check the music (because I am always told, David worshipped God with music) I find these words in Deuteronomy, "You shall not worship me the way they worship their Gods." (Deuteronomy 12:1-4) So GOD explicitly tells us NOT to use ceremonies from other religions when we worship him. How plain is that? Very. Further research shows that yes, David did use instruments and dance before the LORD, but in the streets and courtyard of the Sanctuary. The instruments were not played inside the Sanctuary or at least I have not found an instance where they were. So should they be played in our Sanctuary? The Bible is to be our only guideline. Since some Adventist writers are leaning toward spiritualism and most first-day writers, no matter how much truth they put in their writings are denying the Sabbath Truth, I prefer to use the Bible, my dictionary, and the concordance to learn what God expects of me. Anything that is not supported by the Bible must not be supported by God's people, no matter how "circumstances have changed."
Jim, i concur totally with your views stated above. The Catholic church is covering all bases for welcoming all tending to Christianity. And if the present pope lives long enough, the resurgence to the "mother" church will be tremendous. The United Methodist church is dead as a door nail, as they have wandered away from Holy Writ. Even in 1968 i attended a Methodist church on Easter morn, and Jesus was not even mentioned in the pastor's homily. My elder sister attended the U.Meth church all her life. She and a cadre of like minded people built a big church, which grew to over 300 members. When she died there were only 8 members left. A long term U. Meth. pastor i knew, spent 45 years in ministry, had an early morning radio show for over 25 years, and was very surprised that i believed in the ressurection. As to the SDA, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, they are survivors. With the fall council recommending a "recent 6 day literal creation", it appears Ted Wilson knows where his fate lies; With the emerging 3rd world countries, who have been indoctrinated into the traditional conservative theme by missionary witnessing, who believe in thesuperiority of male over female sharing of faith, and non-welcoming of the homosexual into the church, and among the numerous FB's. This is where the power of the current hierarchy lies. The treasurer stated that the tithe from Brazil alone will soon be larger than that of the NAD. It appears the hard difficult positions will be made by the emerging nations of SDA, and let the chips fall where they may. i submit there will be a stong posibility of a schism developing, especially amongst the California conferences, and possibly some in Europe, and Australia, following the GC meeting next year. But the SDA will not founder but continue in the world.
The New President of the GC probably will be from the emerging nations.
I would not be surprised if G T Ng is the next GC President. He has the chops to do the job.
I am wondering when th GC will begin ratcheting-up the tithe percentage contributed by Brazil conferences to the GC budget, from current 1% to parity with North America conferences 6% (down from 10% in the past)? If you want to play you should have to pay 8-).
Or maybe North America conferences should gradually ratchet their contributions down to 1%? Currently we donors here in North America are heavily subsidizing all those other parts of the world that don't like the way we think and act.
In the Biblical model for tithes and offerings, they were given directly to the local priests living in the communities of Israel. People delivered their offerings to the temple only on the few occasions when they visited there, which for most Jews was perhaps once each year. The local priests tithed 10% of what they received to the temple to support the priests ministering there. What if the SDA Church operated using such a model? You would see vibrant local churches operating with a minimum of corporate oversight and the church far healthier than today.
recently, i submitted what i thought was a reasonable proposition to the white estate, not 'tongue in cheek'. in effect, i wondered why the white estate could not disband with prejudice for about 5 years; place a moratorium of sorts on the use of egw writing and quote only from the bible. i know that pigs don't fly but walking without crutches could turn out to be an amazing experience.
That sounds good, but what most likely would happen, Brother William is a group of churches that have nothing in common except for the name.
Sister Matno,
If the Bible and the Holy Spirit cannot hold us together, then any hope that Ellen can do the job is misplaced.
Brother Jim, do people look to Ellen White to hold them together? She simply gave us clarification through the inspiration of the Holy Ghost. There are probably people who have placed her on a pedestal, but the Israelites were trying to worship the snake on the stick. People spend thousands going to the "holy land" believing that this will improve their relationship with Christ. That is just some people's nature. But just because some people grab hold of the wrong thing, doesn't mean that the basic ideas that founded the church are wrong, or that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is not the church God raised up to present His last message to a dying world.