Among the Delegates in San Antonio Are Women Already Ordained as Adventist Ministers
By Stefani Leeper for AT, July 7, 2015: Discussion of Adventist women in pastoral ministry turns up the surprising (to many) fact that Adventists in China have been ordaining women clergy since the 1980s. A group of 13 female Adventist leaders from China are attending the 2015 General Conference.
While it is a positive example demonstrating women’s ability to be spiritual leaders, it is not as large as one might think. There are only 140 ordained Adventist ministers in China, the largest nation on the globe by population. That is a mind-boggling 0.00001 percent of the total population.
Yet the story of female clergy progress in China is gaining worldwide recognition in San Antonio as delegates who have never heard of it are told for the first time. Opponents of women’s ordination have said that the Adventist church in China is not really part of the denomination, yet it has a delegation at the GC Session which has been introduced publicly. In fact, this is the second time there has been a delegation from China at GC Session.
There are about 30 women who are ordained Adventist ministers, or about one in five of the total Adventist ordained group in the country. The clergy make up a relatively small portion of the 400,000 Adventists—and 1.37 billion Chinese citizens—an Adventist leader told Adventist Today in an interview in San Antonio.
The ordination process is different in China from that used throughout the rest of the world. It is not as clearly defined by organizational policies and more unstructured. For example, clergy status can be denied by one congregation and granted by another. In fact, credentials are not issued to those who are ordained.
In fact, Chinese Adventists are split in their opinions about female leadership, much as they are in the rest of the world. But, where they are comfortable with women clergy and where God has called women to leadership, it is allowed to function without interference. As a result, women in China are a powerful source of spiritual leadership for the Adventist faith. “God is using women in a marked way in China,” said a leader of the movement there.
Tomorrow, delegates will be asked to vote yes or no on the idea of allowing Adventists in the rest of the world to make their own decisions about allowing or restricting females among their ordained ministers. A number of union conferences in the United States and Europe have already made a separate decision on women’s ordination, alongside the Adventists in China.
It sounds like the church in China is following the Bible more closely with regard to ordination and Divine calling to ministry than the rest of the church.
where is that in the Bible friend
It’s unclear why anyone, anywhere would consider China a model for the rest of the world. Adam turned his spiritual authority over to Eve when he sinned. If men in China have refused to reclaim it, that’s a problem, not an example.
Our example is in the Sanctuary. And as long as no woman can be found to ever have served in the Sanctuary from the Old to the New Testament, this should be our example. Not China, NAD or European and Australian divisions.
What is amazing is the CULTURAL approach used by many to this Divine Leadership appointment. What is wrong with women who want to absolutely be ordained to position assigned to men’s role? No women were ever ordained by men in the Bible.
Except for the minority of men who want to be women in our days, we still have to find men who claim the role of women. How many men have ever wanted to bear children, breastfeed them and reared them up? Yet, women are wanting to prove themselves belittled just because the Creator has not given them the power of authority after the fall in Genesis 3 – which was caused by Eve? Women have been given the power of influence and if rightly used it is greater than the power of authority. May we submit to His will is my prayer and uphold the role assigned to us.
Congratulations to the faithful in China. All of the arguments about women’s ordination could face away, and the church could save a lot of time and money, if people could understand what the vote is really about (and what it is not about). http://EqualOrdination.com/actual-significance/
I believe the ordained woman pastors in China are performing a good service
Sounds to me like the vote is weather any SDA group can make their own decision on this issue in any part of the world or for that matter here in the USA.
Several countries have had women pastors for a long time already so sounds to me like the GC is just going to allow all to continue as it has in the past.
I do pray that the GC recommendation allowing the 13 divisions to decide the matter for their respective divisions passes tomorrow.
Let’s get it straight about the SDA church in China. It is *not* a part of the worldwide SDA church and the GC has *no* jurisdiction over the SDA church in China. The Three-Self Communist organization heads the Protestant churches in China including the SDA church.
Check out:
http://www.billionbibles.org/china/three-self-church.html
That’s not to say that there are SDAS meeting in homes or in secret. Note carefully that often SDA Ministries which talk about Chinese members hide faces and names.
So true, you are right about the situation in China.
don’t forget the rule “what you bind on earth will also be bound in heaven”. So with this in mind God only has authority to the ordination of women up to the boarder of China.
Though with the recent claim of expanded (island building) areas under China’s boundary God has a little more space to work. Maybe, given a few more GC get togethers, the SDA church will get the big picture and grant God to be no longer gender biased with who They are allowed to use all the options to finish the work.
As to authority of any kind, my understanding is that Christ (God) is the Head of the church, not some committee.
Question: If God were to call a husband and wife to the gospel ministry and ordination would they get a double salary like teams get today? There would be a saving on hotel bills after all.
As for Adam and Eve issue raised above, if Adam and consulted with God and pointed out his great love ad affection for his wife, the experiment on earth with sin could maybe have been a whole lot shorter. God’s demonstration of the result of bad choices (saying No to God, not trusting Them) would have been possibly a whole lot quicker
maybe?????
It could have been even quicker with a whole lot less pain for the questions that were raised with Lucifer in Heaven. If Lucifer had just trusted God.
Just as we could have been off this earth if we were more inclined to trust God
Church policy/doctrine should not be established on exception to the rule. If your ox falls into the ditch on the Sabbath it is not inappropriate to do what ever work it take to get it out of the ditch. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
1 Timothy 3 and the requirements for serving the church in the capacity of ἐπισκοπῆς must not be maintained. They must be the husband of one wife. However, this does not mean that no exception to the rule must ever be made. Where there is no alternative, women may have to do the work there is no qualified or capable man to do. But this should be only where there is no other option. Just as working on the Sabbath should be the rare exception, not the rule. The vote about this should be about the rule, not the permissible exception.
I am sorry this needs to be edited — it should read as follows:
Church policy/doctrine should not be established on exception to the rule. If your ox falls into the ditch on the Sabbath it is not inappropriate to do what ever work it takes to get it out of the ditch. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
1 Timothy 3 and the requirements for serving the church in the capacity of ἐπισκοπῆς MUST BE maintained. They must be the husband of one wife. However, this does not mean no exception to the rule must ever be made. Where there is no alternative, women may have to do the work there is no qualified or capable man to do. But this should be only where there is no other option. Just as working on the Sabbath should be the rare exception, not the rule.
I just a few minutes ago checked with a person who, among other things, heads up mission work to China. In addition to the Three-Self church is an underground SDA church.
Having females as ordained pastors has no relationship to what we should do in the worldwide SDA church.
Maranatha
Very clear and true for it is a delicate enviornment on the mainland.
It’s interesting that the early church was actually run by women and the men travelled from church to church. This was a safety issue for the church and the women. However the Roman’s got jealous over the perceived power women had in the church they didn’t see God leading in it at all. They looked at life through chauvinistic eyes. They set up a system which can be followed through their “councils” to eliminate women from leadership. The Romans did not value women or any contribution, unless it was catering to men. They could not handle the equality that existed in the church of that day. It’s obvious some of us can’t either?
I wish we could be a true reformation church and go back to Jesus’ model of there being neither male nor female in Christ Jesus! Or, are we in Christ Jesus if we are only fighting for a church hierarchy? This hierarchy fight was in the early church too. Peter was the one who protected hierarchy and rules, Paul got out into the gospel commission. The fight those two had while listed in the scriptures appears to be going on today too.
UnScriptural at best, your conclusion.
“It’s interesting that the early church was actually run by women and the men travelled(sic) from church to church.”
Please show proof. Thanks.
There are no proof.
The Leadership from the Old to the New Testament was never changed by the Creator even while He walked on earth. If such would have been the case, we could read it clearly in His Word.
We can find women judge, prophets, queen and other roles such as: welfare ministry, teacher, caregiver and many more. But not once, does the Bible mentions women in priestly or high priestly role.
Even the sister of Moses, Miriam, when she rebelled against the authority of Moses with her brother Aaron the high priest, was punished more severely than him.
Korah, a Levite priest and cousin of Moses and Aaron, was destroyed along with his family for daring to challenged the high priesthood assigned to Aaron’s family after the idolatry at the Golden Calf.
These are no small examples of opened rebellion against the Leadership Roles as assigned by the Creator Himself.
My prayer is for those well-intentioned perhaps but ill-informed members who seem to ignore the Biblical-Sanctuary leadership assigned by the Creator, to humble themselves and accept the decision of the 60% of delegates who firmly stood for the truth as taught through the Sanctuary.
Thy Way of Yah is in the Sanctuary which is the most complete, connected, and harmonious system of truth of the whole Bible and our foundation as SDA. Christ is the Way and we can find His will in the Sanctuary.
Thank God for all the prayers of the saints before the voting to protect the integrity of the church. Their prayers were heard. God is in control of His church and His people. Do not change God’s ways!
Odette: “Our example is in the Sanctuary. And as long as no woman can be found to ever have served in the Sanctuary from the Old to the New Testament, this should be our example.”
Totally agree Odette. Which is why I am launching a new movement, right here today on AT, suggesting at the next session we ask that we ban ordination for any male who is not a circumcised Jew. After all, all the OT Levitical Priests were circumcised Jews and so were all the apostles appointed by Jesus.
Fair is fair… We have to be consistent in the application of our scripture, otherwise, God will condemn us as a bunch of hypocrites.
Can I count on your support? I for one have confidence you are consistent in your reading of the Bible and would not be hypocritical on this issue.
Steve,
Are we supposed to laugh at your “jokes”? Let us know when, please.