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  1. Hansen
    23 December 2015 @ 6:39 am

    I once asked an Amazing Facts Bible school worker exactly where the gospel was found in Amazing Facts literature. After a moment of thought she said “It’s all mixed in.”

    Doug has publicly stated that God called him to teach Christians the “binding nature of the Decalogue”.

    Doug is a very likable person and runs a good prayer meeting in his church, which I attended for ~3 years. His “gospel” ministry is a tragedy for Adventism.

    23 December 2015 @ 10:57 am

    As laudable and admirable as AMAZING FACTS, may be in its outreach,
    like other peripheral non mainstream fundraisers (FRONTIER MISSIONS
    is another). these entities siphon off funds from the main church coffers.

    The divisive ordination issue, provoked in part by Doug Batchelor’s blue collar
    male chauvinism, (I understand he only has an honary high school diploma)
    will empty church coffers of donations from more educated North American members.

    Professional women and their liberated families and spouses, will re- direct
    their giving to more ethical, equitable and non discriminating charitable organizations.

    The myriad of conflicting fundraisers, like Amazing Facts, will further
    deplete church resources.

    My own congregation can barely fund the basic worship hour requirements,
    and church building maintenance,
    but each church bulletin has requests for feeding the local homeless,
    funding local youth orchestras etc
    which make end of year gift giving a labyrinthine
    task of figuring how to allocate my depleted resources

    I am beginning to think that only transparent entities lie ADVENTIST
    TODAY and SPECTRUM are worthy of my end of year tax deductible donations!!

    • John Allen
      25 December 2015 @ 5:58 am

      Sorry about your congregations depleted resources…for a giving church is a sign of a living church. I would have to say though that Amazing Facts has brought many more souls to a relationship with Jesus than either Adventist today or Spectrum ever will;)

        25 December 2015 @ 10:57 am

        When I joined my congregation forty years ago, the 1300 seat sanctuary was filled to capacity fifteen minutes before the worship hour. Now it feels that some sabbaths the choir outnumbers the congregants.

        Four decades ago, there were over one hundred high paid professionals– physicians, dentists, attorneys– on the church roster. Now the few remaining professionals are retired and on fixed incomes.

        Yes, a giving church is a growing church, but you cannot get “blood out of a turnip”

        There are three Englsh churches all within three miles of each other in my town, all three with large sanctuaries, formerly full, but now all three congregations could be combined under one roof, with ample seats to spare! I have not attended the Spanish nor Filipino churches in my town. Hopefully they are not simarlarly impoverished!

        A sign of declining membership/resources in the North American entity which previously funded a world wide work, and now barely able to sustain minimal services at the local level?

        And the women’s ordination issue, and young earth creationism, has only begun to discourage the remaining educated professionals from remaining and financially supporting! Not a happy prospect!

        You will not read these dire facts in the Review– at least Spectrum and Adventist Today are transparent in their reporting!

        • John Allen
          25 December 2015 @ 8:25 pm

          You sure have seen a lot of change in your congregation in those four decades and I pray that the churches in your town will grow. Forty years ago the lack of young earth creationism and women’s ordination didn’t seem to be turning people away from giving though.

          We finished a new small church and have been functioning with out a pastor thanks to the strong leadership of the Elders. Also our church is growing… Two were baptized last week. As we raised funds for our new church our church has been able to fund a number of “one day churches” in other countries.

          I think what has got our church fired up is out reach to others and by focusing on reaching the community we seem to closer to each other and the Lord.

          Your churches will fill up again for the Three Angels message is being given and harvest is ripe!

  3. Edwin A. Schwisow
    23 December 2015 @ 2:15 pm

    I began working within the denomination at about the time the late Elder Crews was establishing “Amazing Facts,” and we crossed paths from time to time. ‘Amazing Facts’ was clearly an outreach that believed in presenting the “Facts” about the Decaloque and comparing those biblical facts with the fallenness of competing denominations and preachers. It used a strongly confrontational message to gain the attention of people who were unhappy with or were becoming dissatisfied, with the Sunday-keeping status quo; at the time, this was more or less considered a normal approach for Adventist evangelism in North America: “Find the dissatisfied and bring them in to the Adventist culture.”

    I have always accepted the proposition that accentuating the negatives in other denominations CAN and DOES arrest the attention of a certain declining strain of North American culture, but expanding and improving how we introduce the gospel is a study that is never complete and must be continuously researched and further developed. We live in an era when our message can begin to sound like endless repetition of a tedious theme….

  4. Hansen
    23 December 2015 @ 6:45 pm

    Robin, AFM is a scam of sorts. There is no reason that SDA should give money to an organization like AFM. That it exists in its current state is an embarrassment to the denomination. Many millions of tithe $ are collected every year by the denomination but it can’t afford to finance people to carry the gospel to unentered areas? That’s because the church wastes its money on people who actually do little for the true gospel cause.

    Large churches may have 3-5 paid clergy but how many souls do they bring into the kingdom? The average is about 8 per annum, including children of members. No need for professionals to teach a child or most of the other “converts”.

    A few years ago AFM was trying to collect several thousand $ a month for a couple in Thailand. A couple can live comfortably in Thailand on ~one thousand $ a month. The missionaries would essentially become millionaires; Even gold digging Thai hustlers/prostitutes don’t ask for that much money from their Johns.

    Adventism primarily exists in America to serve the needs of a cultural elite i.e., its clergy. To his credit, Doug Batchelor doesn’t live off the tithe. He honestly earns his salary from the AF budget. The money collected by AFM “missionaries” also covers the salaries of its administrative staff, which in Adventism, can become onerous.

  5. RT1C
    24 December 2015 @ 9:00 pm

    Hansen, are you confusing Amazing Facts Ministries with Adventist Frontier Missions? Two entirely separate organizations.

  6. Hansen
    25 December 2015 @ 1:24 am

    No confusion. AFM: Adventist Frontier Missions; AF:Amazing Facts. Both are scams of a sort although I suppose both have well meaning people involved in their work.

    A % of the money people collect for their AFM outreach goes to the salaries and support of the AFM administration. Gold digging prostitutes hustling people in Thailand easily get buy on significantly less money than AFM “missionaries.”

    So do many foreigners who live in Thailand. A married couple can live comfortably on about ~$1000 a month in the Chiang Rai area, yet AFM was asking for thousands of $ monthly support for a two person missionary team. Missionaries need high end apartments in BKK to survive now?

    AFM missionaries collect money for everything you can imagine, i.e., new 4 wheel drive vehicles, medical evacuation insurance, basic insurance, home resettlement costs, tuition fees for children, housing, internet fees etc., etc., etc.

    Some Asian countries like Thailand and China and Japan are quite modern and developed. Native English speakers can easily find good paying jobs in various specialty fields and earn their own living, often a better one than they could have in their native country and not cost anybody a penny.

    Instead they call themselves “missionaries” and walk around with their paw out. “If a man doesn’t work, he doesn’t eat.” It’s not complicated.

    AFM is much more opaque about money than they used to be. Man, mission, movement, monument. No news here.

  7. Gary Jackson
    25 December 2015 @ 12:21 pm

    Bigger is not better,if there was ever a “golden”era of the church, its over.
    Have we fallen so far as to measure God’s missionaries pay to prostitutes!

    To those that stand against God’s church and it’s ruling regarding denying women’s ordination you have the spirit of appeasement/worldliness found in Rome! Regarding tithe being kept back because someone doesn’t like the direction or stance the church takes,I say this, a local Adventist church that received new pews donated by a rich and well thought of family.Their pride gave them the idea that they could then dictate to the church what they may do and say. When the pastor heard of this he stood in the pulpit the next Sabbath and announced a work bee the next morning to remove said pews from the church followed by a bonfire that evening! The rich man and his wife being convicted of their sin stood up and asked for forgiveness in this matter . The pews stayed and the church moved on . We so wish to have a Pastor with such backbone in these last days!

  8. Gary Jackson
    25 December 2015 @ 12:25 pm

    Bigger is not better,if there was ever a “golden”era of the church, its over.
    Have we fallen so far as to measure God’s missionaries pay to prostitutes

  9. Tom Van Voorst
    25 December 2015 @ 3:20 pm

    Doug Batchelor and Amazing Facts is an embarressment to the Seventh-day Adventist Church. His dogmatic regressive approach to the gospel and rigid silliness on appearance etc. will continue to drive those away who seek a church that focuses on people who looking for a close relationship with Christ unhindered by man made interpretations.

  10. Hansen
    25 December 2015 @ 9:14 pm

    Tom, It’s not only Doug. Many of the ethnic churches who came to Adventism as a result of missionary endeavors simply substituted one form of legalism for another i.e.,they traded in Roman Catholicism for Adventism. They never learned/accepted the gospel. A defrocked SDA minister in the Philippines started his own legalistic denomination which has done relatively well through the years.

    One of their most important doctrines is tithing. Former RCs who were excommunicated or have issues with the RC church in the Philippines switched to this denomination Iglesia ni Christo. 10% is a cheap tax in exchange for eternal life. Many cultural SDA know this.